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Post by Ethan Winer on Aug 2, 2016 15:39:17 GMT
LOL, I guess I'm just not a fan of jewelry. I really hate diamonds. Seriously. What a crock! Diamond sellers have convinced people of limited means to spend thousands of dollars on rings for marriage, rather than a better car, or putting it into a retirement account or a down payment on a home etc. Even jewelers can't tell the difference between a real diamond and a zirconium. I am serious. The whole industry is a huge scam. Don't get me started!
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Post by Hexspa on Aug 2, 2016 20:33:37 GMT
So basically
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Post by Chris St'Aubyn on Aug 5, 2016 12:48:21 GMT
I'm out of town at the moment but in a week I'm going to do a little testing.
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Post by arnyk on Aug 8, 2016 8:34:19 GMT
We all know that the converter in some interfaces are better than others but by what measurement. The standard audio measurements of frequency response, distortion, and noise still more than suffice. Distortion and noise are sometimes rolled together as Dynamic Range, and that works, too. Lumping "DACs of our interfaces" into one single near-global lump, and contrasting that with another near-global lump called "motherboards of our computers, cars, cellphones" is naive. There are clear measurable audible differences among the members of each of those overly-global categories. Absolutely. The gold standard for subjective audio testing is the ABX test, and once certain fairly minimal standards are met, in typical use all good DACs sound the same. PC motherboard DACs used to be pretty horrible, but since 2005 or so, most have been audibly transparent as typically used. The DACs in good portable digital players and smart phones are usually very good, and hard to improve on. The DACs in mid-priced AVRs are often as good if not better. Note that many modern home digital players don't even have DACs, they only have digital (usually HDMI) outputs. It makes sense to keep the audio signal in the digital domain until it is as close to the listener as possible. One fairly common and easy to use means for measuring this sort of thing is the Audio Rightmark program (freeware).
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Post by arnyk on Aug 8, 2016 8:41:44 GMT
LOL, I guess I'm just not a fan of jewelry. I really hate diamonds. Seriously. What a crock! Diamond sellers have convinced people of limited means to spend thousands of dollars on rings for marriage, rather than a better car, or putting it into a retirement account or a down payment on a home etc. Even jewelers can't tell the difference between a real diamond and a zirconium. I am serious. The whole industry is a huge scam. Don't get me started! Amen brother! My wife and I had only plain gold bands until we'd been married almost 2 decades, had mostly raised the kids, the cars were paid for, and the house was well on its way to being paid off as well. We then bought her the first diamond, pretty much for the heck of it. As far as watches go, she and I still wear them, but they are fitness trackers, with time display being a handy feature. Most people who have them use their cell phones as their time references, and those are unbelievably accurate. Time used to be an end in itself, but now it embedded in the cell system and GPS.
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Post by Ethan Winer on Aug 8, 2016 16:44:20 GMT
LOL, excellent Arny, and thanks for showing up here and posting!
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Post by lexman on Jan 25, 2017 21:59:54 GMT
It's just that the price of interfaces change dramatically. Something has to be adding to the value of them. Is it the latency improvements? Is it the drivers? Is it the level of noise in the signal? If I'm a guy working strictly ITB why is there so much emphasis on my DAC and which interface I choose (hypothetically speaking)? As with all products, price often has surprisingly little to do with quality. I am serious. The filet mignon steaks I get at Costco are much better quality than what they sell for twice the price at a local "meat specialty" store half a mile away. Sticking with audio, this $300 Crown power amplifier: www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLS1002is vastly better than this piece of crap sold to the hi-fi market (without even basic fidelity specs) for $7,000 : www.musicdirect.com/p-4537-bat-vk-55se-tube-power-amp.aspxAs rock explained, latency doesn't affect fidelity. It can be important, but that's more a function of the driver than the hardware. If you're serious about understanding what affects fidelity, this video of my AES presentation explains in great detail: AES Damn LiesThis video explains even more: AES Audio MythsMy book The Audio Expert explains even more than that, though it's not free like my YouTube videos. --Ethan Hi Ethan, I see you're comparing Crown amps with a BAT tube amp. If we'd compare apples to apples (solid state and solid state, say a 200W McIntosh / Krell with similar offering from Crown), would you say the same ie no need to spend a ton to get similar results? Does this apply to all speaker types? Very interested here, because if it's the case I'd jump right there and buy of Crown amps. On another note, here's what a very knowledgeable engineer had to say about my B&W CM10 speakers: 'in general are known to like “control” from the amplifier, and that often means larger power supplies and output stages in amplifiers. The difference is usually in the bass.' What would that mean in terms of selecting an amp? I don't want to judge something based on a single piece of data, but they weight of Crown amps is around 10 pounds, this seems light to have big power supplies and output stages... but my methodology might be wrong.
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Post by arnyk on Jan 26, 2017 12:09:37 GMT
Hi Ethan, I see you're comparing Crown amps with a BAT tube amp. If we'd compare apples to apples (solid state and solid state, say a 200W McIntosh / Krell with similar offering from Crown), would you say the same ie no need to spend a ton to get similar results? Yes, especially if we did a bias-controlled listening test. The test equipment might show some differences, but if they are sonically indistinguishable, isn't that what audiophilia is all about? Apparently, you don't understand the many and very obvious ways that speakers are different from amplifiers to ask such an irrelevant question. In short, speakers generally sound different from each other, and they even sound different from themselves if you move them or yourself around the listening room.
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Post by Ethan Winer on Jan 30, 2017 21:00:17 GMT
I see you're comparing Crown amps with a BAT tube amp. If we'd compare apples to apples (solid state and solid state, say a 200W McIntosh / Krell with similar offering from Crown), would you say the same ie no need to spend a ton to get similar results? Does this apply to all speaker types? Very interested here, because if it's the case I'd jump right there and buy of Crown amps. Understand that my comment was more to show that a lot of very expensive gear is actually inferior to normal priced stuff. Most solid state amps sound the same even if, as Arny mentioned, they measure a little different. Unless that engineer's comments were based on measuring those speakers with varying controlled driving impedances, it's just one person's anecdote and thus is easily discounted. I'm not saying that's the case! But it sounds like it might be.
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Post by arnyk on Feb 1, 2017 15:56:07 GMT
The engineer would appear to be talking down. I think I can accurately translate what he said into good technology. "B&W CM10 speakers benefit from being used with amps that have low source impedances".. This strongly suggests that the CM10's must have an impedance curve that varies a lot and spends some time in critical frequency ranges where their impedance is low." Reference to that might be found here: Stereophile technical reference to CM10 impedance curve"Impedance reaches a minimum of 3.72 ohms at 115 Hz and a phase angle of –69.15º at 69 Hz." I can't find a detailed impedance curve for the CM10, but those for the brandmates that I can find have significant ups and downs, and low minimums given their rated impedances. IOW even though they are often rated at 8 0hms, the minimums go under 4 ohms. Basically, this would appear to be a speaker that would work best with an amplifier with a low source impedance.
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Post by Ethan Winer on Feb 2, 2017 15:44:56 GMT
^^^ Yes, low source impedance, and also the ability to provide high current, plus enough engineering prowess to be stable when driving a varying load.
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Post by Jan S on Sept 24, 2018 8:55:39 GMT
Hi, is there a forum post or article giving Ethan's verdict on the DAC business? Is it meaningful to pay thousands of dollars for standalone DACs? IS anyone aware of null test between budget and expensive DACs? Best regards, Jan S
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Post by Hexspa on Sept 24, 2018 15:48:01 GMT
Hi, is there a forum post or article giving Ethan's verdict on the DAC business? Is it meaningful to pay thousands of dollars for standalone DACs? IS anyone aware of null test between budget and expensive DACs? Best regards, Jan S According to the way I understand it, you pay for features and not sound quality. Even the $100 Scarlett interfaces are sufficiently transparent for professional use. You have to be careful when looking for corroboration since people may have a financial incentive to be mistaken or mislead.
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Post by Ethan Winer on Sept 24, 2018 16:26:46 GMT
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Post by Jan S on Sept 25, 2018 6:47:50 GMT
Thanks!
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