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Post by miguelito on Dec 30, 2016 18:09:05 GMT
dear sir...
i notice there seems to be a handful of people who dont..... agree/like what you have to say and they can be VERY strong about it..... why are they so afraid of you? the evidence you present is well done and im learning SO MUCH from your blogs/videos because of you i began to research the different : chip sets ,tubes ,transisters...ete...etc... and ive discovered that it may not be all that exspensive to bulid these hi end converters/pre amps....etc etc... by hi end i suggest $1000 -$10k ....with your expertise and information challenging these audio experts on conversion might that be the reason these handful of people so strongly oppose you? you ~pull the wool off~ the eyes of the consumers so we can make better more well informed choices? there is now no way they can justify these extreme hi prices for something that cost a few $100`s to make perhaps? i would love to hear you thinking on this sir........
miguelito
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Post by Hexspa on Dec 31, 2016 2:53:45 GMT
Hi, Miguelito.
I'm not Ethan but I do science occasionally.
People hate having their beliefs challenged, on the whole.
Science and religion should be based on faith, not belief.
Faith can have evidence supporting it. In contrast, belief is unsubstantiated.
Faith doesn't create fanatics, belief does.
"Faith" is a George Michael song, "Belief" isn't.
'nuff said.
-m
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Post by Ethan Winer on Dec 31, 2016 16:15:28 GMT
Yes, people hate when their beliefs are challenged, and they hate it even more when they're unable to defend their beliefs. Which is pretty common given that some audio people "believe" in magic power cords, or that a converter costing $2,000 per channel must be audibly better than one costing only $100. You ask then to show you data, or take a blind test, or even explain why they believe, and it just pisses them off even more. Another reason is people feel stupid when you tell them they wasted their money buying a $1,500 headphone amplifier, and that its "Class A" circuit is no better than other designs costing 1/10th as much. So again, it's easier for their ego to blame you (the messenger) than accept that they've been duped. As for the cost to make stuff, it can vary a lot. But your observation that a lot of stuff seems overpriced is correct. My recent thread in this part of the forum "The Null Tester Project" shows a complicated device I'm currently working on. I used to design and build audio projects both large and small, but that was 30+ years ago. So I've had to get up to speed all over again, and everything has changed! Two factors that affect the cost to manufacture are 1) where it's assembled - in the US or in Asia, and 2) how much assembly is actually required. If everything is on a single PC board, and all the pots, switches, and input / output jacks are also on that board, the device can be assembled easily and put in a case with a few screws to hold it all together. Because my device is a prototype just to see how well the concept works, I didn't spend the considerable effort to make it easy to assemble. So I have more than 40 different items on the front panel, and all have to be hand wired. It took me three hours just to mount everything and attach the knobs! I have spent so far ten hours soldering wires, and I'm still not done. Now, some of this is because I had to stop several times and look up pin number arrangements in a PDF file etc. But still, just doing this by hand, versus having all the parts on a daughter board that plugs into the main PC board, could easily add $1,000 to the cost to manufacture! All of that said, most "popular" audio devices you see are made in Asia using efficient manufacturing. So yeah, $2,000 per channel is probably way more than any preamp or converter is worth.
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Post by miguelito on Dec 31, 2016 17:06:38 GMT
thanx you for your reply mr. ethan w. and hexspa..... mr.ethan your a man of your word.......im in the process of reading your works to get caught up now...
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Post by rock on Dec 31, 2016 17:14:06 GMT
So Hexspa, I see you've been elevated to a deity. Congrats! So you of all people (sorry I mean deities) should know about faith and belief But Ethan, Pete Townshend has some pretty magical power chords ...Ha Ha Happy New Year! Rock
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Post by sal1950 on Dec 31, 2016 19:31:16 GMT
"As for the cost to make stuff," There is the situation where a lot of gear is being installed in very expensive custom machined billet cabinets, etc, costing more than the components inside. Which is all well and good, as long as you can get thru to the luxury goods purchaser that his gear is like his Rolex watch. Very nice to look at but not telling time any more accurate than a nice Timex.
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Post by miguelito on Jan 1, 2017 3:26:19 GMT
i just feel like we as consumers might be getting taken for a ride , i understand business has cost and a profit must be made BUT to market your product as SOO over the top : in this case $1000`s to $10000 `s when it might cost only a few $100 to make , makes me think WE as consumers might want to pay MORE attention to someone like Mr. Ethan w....who has the evidence to support his claim that the ROOM we work in audio wise should be the primary investment no? we my get better results from our recording/mixes/masters....if we take part of our monies and invest in our rooms and ways to better them yes? The ...tubes /chip sets and these items that make up these clocks/preamps/converters..etc.... may NOT be that expensive to make....and ONLY add hair strands of improvement to overall quality... Mr. ethan w`s info has ALREADY improved my audio quality....im grateful.....the few thousand i have saved for hi end mytek/lavry/rme converters can be used for improving my work space for GREATER results....no...?
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Post by Hexspa on Jan 1, 2017 5:03:52 GMT
i just feel like we as consumers might be getting taken for a ride , i understand business has cost and a profit must be made BUT to market your product as SOO over the top : in this case $1000`s to $10000 `s when it might cost only a few $100 to make , makes me think WE as consumers might want to pay MORE attention to someone like Mr. Ethan w....who has the evidence to support his claim that the ROOM we work in audio wise should be the primary investment no? we my get better results from our recording/mixes/masters....if we take part of our monies and invest in our rooms and ways to better them yes? The ...tubes /chip sets and these items that make up these clocks/preamps/converters..etc.... may NOT be that expensive to make....and ONLY add hair strands of improvement to overall quality... Mr. ethan w`s info has ALREADY improved my audio quality....im grateful.....the few thousand i have saved for hi end mytek/lavry/rme converters can be used for improving my work space for GREATER results....no...? Or use it to pay rent so you can make music! -m
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Post by Hexspa on Jan 1, 2017 5:11:41 GMT
So Hexspa, I see you've been elevated to a deity. Congrats! So you of all people (sorry I mean deities) should know about faith and belief But Ethan, Pete Townshend has some pretty magical power chords ...Ha Ha Happy New Year! Rock Roooooock.... Is that youuuuuu? It's hard to hear you from up here. You look so small... Yess, yess.. Pete is a good one. But just wait till you hear what Jimi's been up to! He's got Robert Johnson and Leadbelly asking for tips! -G
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