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Post by gcmoog on Feb 23, 2017 7:38:51 GMT
Hi all,
Recently I saw a thread discussing the benefits of using a power adapter for a consumer grade interface vs bus power. The OP showed a picture (of the box their interface came in) where the manufacturer implied that an optional power supply would "enable a wider dynamic range", suggesting higher performance than if it was powered over USB...
It also had a nice diagram showing how USB (2.0 in this case) cannot provide the same amount of current as a 9V DC power adapter. This is true, but as the current draw for this particular device is only 240ma, and USB 2.0 can provide up to 500ma of current, how could "wider dynamic range" be offered by using a power adapter? It doesn't mention any of this on their website either, and of course, the interface doesn't come with the adapter, it is just listed as an accessory ($40+shipping!).
I don't know enough about this but I am skeptical. I used to have an 8 channel M-audio interface that could offer limited use with bus power and needed a power supply to record all 8 channels at once with +48v @ up to 96k, if I remember correctly. The difference being that the adapter came with the product, and in a situation where an interface needs additional power outside of the capacity of the USB port or it won't function fully, I get it, but is there any benefit to having a power supply in a situation like this where bus power is more than sufficient?
Also, are there any good articles, or supporting information, to show that there would be an audio quality/performance improvement in using a power adapter over USB bus power?
Thanks
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Post by arnyk on Feb 23, 2017 12:20:13 GMT
Hi all, Recently I saw a thread discussing the benefits of using a power adapter for a consumer grade interface vs bus power. That would be "alleged benefits". ;-) Ummm. I call that feeding ignorant audiophile obsession with power supplies for fun and profit. It is a common situation in audio. It leads to absurdly designed gear that is overbuilt to provide service that is never needed and in many cases can't be needed. Lets get down to the basics. IME obtaining 2.5 watts of power (IOW 0.5 amps of current) from a USB interface is a reasonable expectation. If you worry about this, for prices ranging from a few bucks up to about $10 you can buy USB power monitors from places like Amazon and eBay. See for yourself! That has to be one wonderful power adapter to be worth $40! I get commodity power adapters (wall warts and cable warts) that put out a whopping 15 watts of power from Amazon and eBay for more like %5. At $10 the power levels can be more like 60 or 80 watts (laptop style regulated DC power supplies). The answer to that question takes bench testing. Not a heck of a lot that I know about, other than the usual biased and meaningless audiophile claims based on sighted evaluations. There are zillions of those! Reality is that if a typical SS amplifier of any kind from a MM phono preamp to a zillion watt fire breathing megawatt power amp does not have enough power, it clips prematurely. This is usually pretty gross sounding. Therefore claims that a overpriced power supply being sold at a huge markup would make the sound "More crisp and dynamic", "Lift 10 veils*, etc., can generally be dismissed.
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Post by rock on Feb 23, 2017 13:47:29 GMT
The whole idea of DC power supplies having an affect on audio quality is dubious at best as long as the power supply in question can deliver the correct clean, stable voltage and the minimum current required. If your power supply in insufficient in any way, of course, you may degrade the audio but since your device is also a digital processor, it probably won't work at all without the proper minimum voltage and current. USB voltage output is standardized at +5 VDC, the max current output varies by the specific port spec. so you need to make sure your USB port will deliver the current the device requires and that's about it. Here's a discussion I found that goes into more details: superuser.com/questions/690074/what-is-the-power-output-of-a-usb-portCheers, Rock
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Post by Ethan Winer on Feb 23, 2017 19:15:17 GMT
Sorry, I'm late to the game and Arny and Rock already gave great advice. The only thing I'll add is that some (many?) laptops don't provide the full 0.5 amps of current the USB 2.0 spec expects. When I spec'd and set up a laptop for a friend about five years ago, I checked with Dell and they said their laptop USB ports provide only 300 mA, so my friend's sound card with preamps and phantom power wouldn't have worked. So I got him a laptop from AlienWare after confirming their USB ports do provide the full half an amp. The USB 3.0 spec provides for even more current, so newer laptops might not have that problem.
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Post by arnyk on Feb 24, 2017 2:15:00 GMT
There are special USB cables that facilitate adding external power sources along or in place of the power that is built into the USB standard. They are sold for the use with charging cell phones and tablets and attaching hard drives and DVD drives via USB. They can be found on Amazon, eBay and sites catering to cell phones and the like.
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Post by gcmoog on Feb 24, 2017 9:11:15 GMT
I read that you could also use a Y cable to use the power of two USB ports, but I have no experience doing this myself.
The interface in question was a Roland Duo Capture ex but I have an Apogee Duet 2 somewhere in a box, which I might dig out and test with and without power adapter. It won't be particularly scientific but as some of the comments on the original thread mentioned a decrease in noise it would be interesting to see if that is true. My instincts say the difference (if any at all) will be negligible.
Thanks for all the well considered comments.
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