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Post by Hexspa on Feb 26, 2018 9:24:44 GMT
It has a projector screen, books, and pictures so how can it suck? Maybe it's a dope place to watch movies or read with headphones. There's more to a room than good acoustics. If you want a commercial acoustics solution then I have no reason not to recommend Real Traps. That option notwithstanding, you can make great strides by crafting your own panels. Many sound enthusiasts do this to great effect - economically, functionally, and sense of accomplishment. Could you recommend some resources for DIY absorption? Thanks in advance! You're on the best forum in the world for DIY absorption! Rock is right though. We can help best if we know where you are in terms of knowledge and buying temperature as well as budget and current room situation. The easiest answer is buy fluffy stuff from the hardware store, make frames, and put it everywhere! It only gets complicated if you want to do less than that, which most people do.
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Post by Anthony on Mar 13, 2018 16:41:44 GMT
Could you recommend some resources for DIY absorption? Thanks in advance! You're on the best forum in the world for DIY absorption! Rock is right though. We can help best if we know where you are in terms of knowledge and buying temperature as well as budget and current room situation. The easiest answer is buy fluffy stuff from the hardware store, make frames, and put it everywhere! It only gets complicated if you want to do less than that, which most people do. I have a college budget and a relatively decent background knowledge on acoustic treatment (basically just read Ethan Winer's entire website and have read many other websites). Are frames necessary? And also, I keep reading sometimes that the pink fluffy fiberglass is a respiratory irritant. Is that true as well?
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Post by Anthony on Mar 13, 2018 16:50:47 GMT
Additionally, could I just buy sheets of Owens Corning and stack them in corners instead, 4" thick?
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Post by rock on Mar 13, 2018 22:31:23 GMT
You've read Ethan's material so of course OC will work, but what to you mean by "stack"? how will you orient them? As I asked before, please be specific. You can cover Fluffy FG with any porous material, for really cheap you can use landscape fabric but it hold up in bright sunlight for more than a couple years.
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Post by Hexspa on Mar 14, 2018 8:28:00 GMT
You're on the best forum in the world for DIY absorption! Rock is right though. We can help best if we know where you are in terms of knowledge and buying temperature as well as budget and current room situation. The easiest answer is buy fluffy stuff from the hardware store, make frames, and put it everywhere! It only gets complicated if you want to do less than that, which most people do. I have a college budget and a relatively decent background knowledge on acoustic treatment (basically just read Ethan Winer's entire website and have read many other websites). Are frames necessary? And also, I keep reading sometimes that the pink fluffy fiberglass is a respiratory irritant. Is that true as well? Frames are especially necessary for fluffy as it will compress under it's own weight thus changing it's acoustic properties. All fiberglass is an irritant in any given circumstance. I have it on authority that it's not carcinogenic, though.
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Post by rock on Mar 14, 2018 14:02:53 GMT
Absolutely, fluffy can't stand on it's own or hold much of a shape so you do need a frame unless you can nail it to the wall with long spikes. Covering it then would have an amorphic shape. For rigid, you can get away without a frame but you'll have to be creative if you hang it on the wall or ceiling but it can stand against a wall OK. Basically, the frame is for practical installation and does not do anything for acoustics. Actually for acoustics, there is somewhat of a negative aspect because the area the frame covers does not absorb ... but this is something most of us live with. To maximize the area of FG, you can cut holes in a wood frame of use drywall corner bead like Hexspa has shown us.
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Post by Hexspa on Mar 14, 2018 23:46:41 GMT
Absolutely, fluffy can't stand on it's own or hold much of a shape so you do need a frame unless you can nail it to the wall with long spikes. Covering it then would have an amorphic shape. For rigid, you can get away without a frame but you'll have to be creative if you hang it on the wall or ceiling but it can stand against a wall OK. Basically, the frame is for practical installation and does not do anything for acoustics. Actually for acoustics, there is somewhat of a negative aspect because the area the frame covers does not absorb ... but this is something most of us live with. To maximize the area of FG, you can cut holes in a wood frame of use drywall corner bead like Hexspa has shown us. Ha, "...like Hexspa has shown us." I really came down the mountain with that one, eh? That's the old Steven P. Helm design. Though, if anyone plans on using it, I suggest vinyl drywall bead due to it's 'not cut off your finger' and 'doesn't oxidize so much' properties. Also, since panels do occasionally fall, I advise for framing to help protect the material. Not to mention that if you leave it angled on the floor, they actually function as foot magnets - what the physics are behind that, I'm not sure - so having protection will win there too.
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Post by Shadowcat1 on Jun 22, 2018 2:44:50 GMT
Years ago for parties at my house I used to set my audio equipment up in the back yard........First time I did it I couldn't believe how much different and better my speakers sounded. I never forgot that, although for practical purposes most of us really can't do that on a regular basis.
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Post by Michael Lawrence on Jun 22, 2018 14:24:55 GMT
Please understand the difference between a reverberant environment and a single reflection. No one would suggest than an orchestra performing outside in a field sounds better than an orchestra performing in Symphony Hall in Boston. A single reflection can be harmful because it causes a comb filter with the direct path and can alter the tonal envelope of the sound. A true reverberant field, being isotropic [edit: isotropic, not anisotropic. That's the video card setting. Thanks Hexspa!] and uniform, is a different thing altogether. For some reading, look at the Master Handbook of Acoustics. I would also point you to the very famous work by Leo Beranek rating performance spaces. Rooms can and do give needed acoustic support to a performance. They can make it sound wider (Apparent Source Width) and immersive (Listener Envelopment). We have metrics and formulas for these things. They are understood. If you have ever mixed a large outdoor concert, you know that a more powerful PA system is required, and it can also sound very harsh because all the sound is coming "at you." More artifical reverb is required in the mix to put things back in a listenable environment than would be required inside a venue.
If you want to hear reflection-free music, listen to recordings made in an anechoic chamber, and use headphones. Even better, find dummy-head recordings and use IEMs.
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 22, 2018 14:27:38 GMT
Anisotropic means not uniform, directional.
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Post by Michael Lawrence on Jun 22, 2018 23:47:33 GMT
Sweet. You should follow me around and define stuff. Basically in a true reverberant field, it doesn't matter which way you face, the reverb still "sounds the same." That's the meaning in this context.
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Post by rock on Jun 23, 2018 14:32:00 GMT
You guys know all this, and I could be wrong, but I sense a mixing of apples and oranges between Shadowcat1's post and Michael L's apparent response.
Small room acoustics using absorption to minimize reflections and room modes and the comparison to outdoor acoustics with the goal of listening to and monitoring prerecorded material is one thing. Medium and large hall acoustics for performance is quite another.
In the former, the goal is an acoustically neutral environment where mix and production can be judged or prerecorded material can be enjoyed as it was intended to be heard. In the latter, the goal is an acoustically live environment that enhances a performance.
The way I read it, Shadowcat1 was going for a neutral environment outdoors and did not intend it as a space that would enhance a performance.
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Post by Michael Lawrence on Jun 23, 2018 17:07:17 GMT
My point is that it's a mistake to assume that music sounds best in an anechoic / outdoor environment. When people listen to music in anechoic chambers, it sounds awful. I disagree with the assertion that listening anywhere other than outside / anechoic conditions is a compromise. There are entire books about how to optimize and design acoustic gain contributed by the listening environment.
In previous decades there was a habit of taping tissue paper over the tweeters of Yamaha NS 10 monitors that were ubiquitous in recording studios. Ethan discusses this in his book. The feeling was that the HF response was excessive and the tissue paper was an attempt to dampen that response. The NS 10 does show a rising frequency response characteristic in anechoic conditions. (Translation: it sounds pretty awful outside.) It was never designed to be used in such a manner. This speaker was originally conceived as a home hi-fi bookshelf speaker. "Bookshelf" is a very specific term in audio: a speaker on a bookshelf is, by necessity, half-space loaded, with the wall behind it. The frequency response of an NS 10 is much closer to flat when it's on a bookshelf, because the design takes into account the boundary effect that couples the LF off the wall. A speaker meant to have a flat on-axis response in anechoic conditions will sound "tubby" against a wall because the off-axis radiation, which consists mostly of LF, builds up. On-axis response does not tell the whole story. Remember, we're talking about perhaps THE most common studio monitor of all time. Doing a mix on NS-10s in an anechoic enviroment - or outside - would not end up sounding very good at all.
I would direct interested individuals to "Sound Reproduction" by Dr. Floyd Toole. If the name sounds familiar, it's because he has made some contributions to Ethan's book. Or from his numerous works and studies. Chapter 12, page 189 examines this phenomenon with actual measurement data.
We do want support from the room, just not damaging early reflections. Look up Live End Dead End recording studios. Also why it's common to have diffusors across a studio's back wall, not absorbers. What I am saying is don't assume "anechoic" is the intended environment for your speakers.
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Post by Michael Lawrence on Jun 23, 2018 17:15:07 GMT
Anisotropic means not uniform, directional. Fixed. Good spot. Anisotropic is the texture filtering. Isotropic is the statistically ideal reverberant field.
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 23, 2018 17:15:26 GMT
Sweet. You should follow me around and define stuff. Basically in a true reverberant field, it doesn't matter which way you face, the reverb still "sounds the same." That's the meaning in this context. Nope. You should use the right words and accept when you're wrong. Context is irrelevant here. Nice try though.
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