Materials for acoustic panels (Real traps, rockwool, etc.)

board
New Member

Posts: 21

Materials for acoustic panels (Real traps, rockwool, etc.) Sept 3, 2018 20:40:29 GMT

Quote

Post by board on Sept 3, 2018 20:40:29 GMT

Ethan, I'm planning to install acoustic panels in my living room, but since I live in Europe I was planning to buy them from your competitor, Gik Acoustics, as they have a European department, so shipping will be cheaper, and there will be no customs duties.

I'm trying to figure out if I should buy their panels or make some myself (they also sell DIY materials).

So, I know that you can't comment on Gik's products (and I'll also ask them), but just so I have an idea, my question is whether the material you use in Real Traps offers better, worse or similar damping to regular rockwool used for insulating houses (or a specific type of rockwool for that matter) that I could buy to make my own panels?

I found the graphs you published with various materials (https://realtraps.com/data.htm), but this doesn't include rock wool. Then I also found your data on rigid fiberglass (http://ethanwiner.com/density.html), but this wasn't rockwool per se either, if I understood it correctly. The rigid fiberglass 703 or 705 type doesn't seem very common in Europe.

Lastly, do you know if the material called Knauf dampens as well as the material you use in Real Traps? If so, would Knauf or Rockwool be the better choice if I want to build my own panels?

I found this site, but I'm still a bit confused: www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

I hope you can help me with these questions, as I really am quite confused :-).

Thanks in advance.

Hexspa
Global Moderator

Am I A Musician Or?

Posts: 2,176

Materials for acoustic panels (Real traps, rockwool, etc.) Sept 3, 2018 21:43:11 GMT

Quote

Post by Hexspa on Sept 3, 2018 21:43:11 GMT

Hi, board. I'm not Ethan but I can pretend. Congratulations on your decision to invest in your home's acoustics. These panels should give you years of enjoyment.

Basically, Knauf looks to perform slightly better than OC 705 according to their data sheets when compared to Bob Golds' information. On the other hand, Ethan has shown that in real world layouts, those numbers can be deceiving.

My guess is that their Acoustic Smooth Board, with or without ECOSE, is a fine option. While I have not used any Real Traps, or its competitors, products, I advocate for DIY treatment. Granted, it's not for everyone, being somewhat labor intensive. Again, no matter what you do, you'll have a good result.

Last Edit: Sept 3, 2018 21:46:34 GMT by Hexspa

Words and music.

board New Member Posts: 21	Materials for acoustic panels (Real traps, rockwool, etc.) Sept 9, 2018 16:42:08 GMT Hexspa likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by board on Sept 9, 2018 16:42:08 GMT Thanks for your help :-). If Ethan wants to chime in that would be greatly appreciated :-).

Michael Lawrence Global Moderator Posts: 195	Materials for acoustic panels (Real traps, rockwool, etc.) Sept 10, 2018 13:02:05 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Michael Lawrence on Sept 10, 2018 13:02:05 GMT Hi Board- Ethan usually swings by these parts about once a week. I just gave him a heads up on this thread so I'd expect that he'll be around sooner rather than later.
	Technical Editor, The Audio Expert by Ethan Winer Precision Audio Services Front of House Mixing \| Sound System Optimization \| Technical Editing

Ethan Winer
Administrator

Posts: 788

Materials for acoustic panels (Real traps, rockwool, etc.) Sept 10, 2018 15:26:17 GMT Hexspa likes this

Quote

Post by Ethan Winer on Sept 10, 2018 15:26:17 GMT

Here I am, thanks Michael. thumbsup

Hexspa has the right idea: You determine how good an absorbing material is by looking at its data. But Hex is also right that absorption data isn't as reliable as we'd like. It's not usually due to cheating! Though sometimes it is. Mostly it's just the variability of the labs that measure these materials. If you'd like to learn more about that, this article won't disappoint:

Test Methods for Acoustic Treatment Products

Ethan's Audio Book
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

Hexspa
Global Moderator

Am I A Musician Or?

Posts: 2,176

Materials for acoustic panels (Real traps, rockwool, etc.) Sept 11, 2018 3:43:52 GMT

Quote

Post by Hexspa on Sept 11, 2018 3:43:52 GMT

Sept 10, 2018 15:26:17 GMT Ethan Winer said:

It's not usually due to cheating! Though sometimes it is.

Words to live by.

EDIT: The following paragraph was written before I read Ethan's very informative article. Also, I'll add that when I said that I advocate for DIY that was in no way to detract from commercial solutions. As I first heard from Mr. Winer: "Cheap, fast, or good - pick two!" Well, I'm 35 and I'm not a millionaire yet so I don't mind taking my time

Source: Pyragraph

Two things corroborate Ethan's wisdom: Chapter 3 of this book; you'll read that every absorbent specimen is unique and secondly, the fact that 'A' mounting is flat on the floor. People by now know that gapping your panels squeezes more low end performance from them. So, if you're angling or gapping, those numbers don't apply to you. Look for something like 16" gap measurements or similar.

Last Edit: Sept 12, 2018 18:52:17 GMT by Hexspa

Words and music.

Materials for acoustic panels (Real traps, rockwool, etc.)

Post by board on Sept 3, 2018 20:40:29 GMT

Post by Hexspa on Sept 3, 2018 21:43:11 GMT

Post by board on Sept 9, 2018 16:42:08 GMT

Post by Michael Lawrence on Sept 10, 2018 13:02:05 GMT

Post by Ethan Winer on Sept 10, 2018 15:26:17 GMT

Post by Hexspa on Sept 11, 2018 3:43:52 GMT