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Post by pingpangpong on Mar 19, 2019 14:09:58 GMT
Drum rooms, speaker isolation cabinets and sound proofing....
Thought i would start a thread regarding the above, as this is my next venture.. I guess this will concentrate mostly on sound proofing and isolation? Im thinking of a semi permanent structure within the room for the drums on a floating floor, possibly on wheels?....if i can find perspex i will use this, other than that single sheets of glass will be used for viewing windows and then a solid door...I'm looking for maximum visibility, i did a twin glass panel in a previous studio build with two sets of double glazing at different thicknesses to avoid resonants? But was just following advice, not sure how important it was? I only have basic building materials available , but most deffenatly dont want to build any block walls....the room will have a 5" concrete roof 6" block walls both sides then glass front leading to the outside. With the isolation cabnet, I'm planning to house a 4x12 guitar cab.....i Know I'm straying from the point with more on design and builds, so hope you don't mind? Also the rest of the room housing the drum room will be a live room, so was also planning on building some room dividers. What would best be used to fill these as I'm guessing i would need more of a sound barrier? Or would the same type filling used for acoustic wall panels suffice?...
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Post by rock on Mar 19, 2019 17:58:32 GMT
As you know, the primary focus of this forum is acoustic treatment. Your new project starts with sound transmission/isolation. My best advice for anyone embarking on such a project is always this book: www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-Studio-Build-Like/dp/143545717X I wish I had this book when I was building studios. (BTW, I also wish I knew then everything I've learned from Ethan et al. here in the last few years! My studios would have been so much better...probably for the same cost!) I suppose you can find other books on the subject but this one may be the only one you need. Please read it first. I was able to borrow it from my public library a couple times so I really didn't read the whole book but it has great and practical advice. I'll just mention that you'll find a floating floor is usually a very bad idea. For isolation you'll need mass.
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Post by pingpangpong on Mar 19, 2019 19:24:25 GMT
Cheers rock always good to get recomendations, just picked up a copy, inspired me to pick up a couple more books on recording and midi also, will have the perfect opertuninty for some indepth reading pretty soon, so great timeing......
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Post by pingpangpong on Mar 24, 2019 7:31:00 GMT
Is it a good guess to say the circled red area is diffusing before and after the sound passes hits the wall and reflex back to the left ear of the drummer, or whats the purpose and why just on the left side? Or does it just look pretty! I can cope with that!
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Post by Hexspa on Mar 25, 2019 15:43:27 GMT
It's not diffusion. Even if it was, that's too close for it to work. That's a scattering arrangement.
What will happen is sound will reflect in different directions. Early reflections give a sense of space and depth. One giant reflection, like that from an entirely untreated wall, will generally be too damaging to the direct signal. In contrast, by breaking up that energy a bit, you'll get more spatial information while minimizing - hopefully - the downsides of energy which is neither diffuse nor absorbed.
Long story short, early reflections are like a bunch of separate taps on a delay - several spaced out and blended in will give you dimension but one large one too close and 50% wet will have an entirely different effect.
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Post by pingpangpong on Mar 26, 2019 1:28:51 GMT
Ok cheers hex thats excilent....so that gobo has been designed specifically for the purpose of being close to that wall?..and for the benefit of the players ear or microphone spillage? and possibly wouldn't be used if the room was bigger and the drums where in a different position? Is this scattering method useful anywhere else in the live room/mixing room? Could it be a replacement or choice over diffusers? So if diffusers are sending back reflexions at different intervals, the scattering is sending it in different directions, is there such a thing as a scattering defuser? Ive been trying to read about it but without much luck, i think I'm seeing a lot of mix up between scattering absorption and diffusing absorption, also reading something for a while before i realised it was in relation to missiles! Google isn't being its wonderful self today!......
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Post by pingpangpong on Mar 26, 2019 1:43:35 GMT
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Post by pingpangpong on Mar 26, 2019 1:59:22 GMT
Im pretty interested in what they call bass trap absorber diffuser in the picture, so if you could share your thoughts on that, as from a building perspective this would be a neater job for me to do.... i tryed to edit the last message but to no avail....also the alcove is bigger than it looks, its over 9' long 15" deep and nearly 10' in hight...
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Post by Hexspa on Mar 26, 2019 3:05:55 GMT
Ok cheers hex thats excilent....so that gobo has been designed specifically for the purpose of being close to that wall?..and for the benefit of the players ear or microphone spillage? and possibly wouldn't be used if the room was bigger and the drums where in a different position? Is this scattering method useful anywhere else in the live room/mixing room? Could it be a replacement or choice over diffusers? So if diffusers are sending back reflexions at different intervals, the scattering is sending it in different directions, is there such a thing as a scattering defuser? Ive been trying to read about it but without much luck, i think I'm seeing a lot of mix up between scattering absorption and diffusing absorption, also reading something for a while before i realised it was in relation to missiles! Google isn't being its wonderful self today!...... I don't know what they were thinking when they designed it. All I can tell you is that it isn't diffusion. As far as I know, diffusion has specific criteria which must be met to qualify as such. Scattering does a similar thing as a diffuser - indeed there is only so much you can do with sound - but to a coarser degree. Both take incoming energy and disperse it over time and space. In a sense, both are reflecting devices but not all reflectors are diffusers.
Let's clear something up: I'm not totally positive they're actually called 'scattering' panels. But, again in my limited head space, I know that reflectors of varying types do exist. If you're trying to find out what uses these surfaces have then I encourage you to think through the possible outcomes. These include, like I've mentioned, how many reflections you want, where you want them & how much you want them blended into your direct signal.
However, one thing's for sure - no one is going through all this trouble for the drummer's subjective benefit. That was a joke.
edit: Ok, I see that product image. There you go: scattering mechanisms. I guess he's calling it 'diffusion' for the sake of marketing. The whole world of sound is filled with such abstractions and semantic nuances. Is a bass trap really an 'absorber'? I kind of take issue with that word but it's the common parlance. A broadband absorber isn't soaking anything up - it's a passive transducer - but for whatever reason, we call them 'absorbers'. Those panels, as far as I know, are certainly not proper diffusers but that sounds a lot better than 'scattering metasurface' or whatever.
Those last contraptions suffer from misonomy also. While combining diffusion with absorption is a widely-accepted approach, placing a scattering plate on top of a broadband panel and calling it a diffuser is really just pushing it. Look, at the end of the day, you can find hundreds of strange designs with all types of names and descriptions. If I were you, I'd stick with referencing Real Traps products or, at the very least, doing some deep diving into what all these definitions actually mean so that you can separate the goose from the caboose.
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Post by pingpangpong on Mar 28, 2019 6:15:27 GMT
linkSome might find the above intresting? Can be downloaded as a pdf.........
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Post by pingpangpong on Nov 20, 2020 10:12:31 GMT
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Post by pingpangpong on Nov 21, 2020 0:43:07 GMT
This is the area im talking about.....its 2 and 1/2 inches.....im happy to pop out 1/2 innch if i can design it to look correct......so thats a possible 3" to play with....that will be all the areas that aren't glass apart from the door......the floor is another unknown atm but i have left enough space for a wooden floor but will be a rug for now.....
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