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Post by sailboarder on Apr 13, 2016 21:14:05 GMT
Hi!
I selected a sub from SVS and realized that it doesn't have speaker level inputs. Will it degrade the sound of my speakers if I just use 2 resistors (maybe 10k and 1k) as a tension divider to feed the sub from the speaker wires? If not a good option, there are also HI-LO converters used in car audio that could work. Some seem to be powered devices, but it's maybe only to drive the signal that's used to wake up the sub on a separate control wire. Would such device work better?
Thanks!
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Post by Ethan Winer on Apr 15, 2016 18:18:39 GMT
If you have no way to feed your sub a line level signal, I imagine a 20-40 dB pad made from simple resistors will work fine. Do you not have a receiver that does bass management? How will you handle the crossover to remove low frequencies from your main speakers? In any case, your idea to make a pad is fine. If your sub has left and right line inputs I guess you'll need to make two pads. If your sub auto-wakes (my SVS does too), you won't need to do anything extra.
--Ethan
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Post by sailboarder on Apr 17, 2016 12:10:29 GMT
No bass management, nor variable line output on my receiver. I will need to make two pads only since the sub auto-wakes. My speakers are full range. I thought of adjusting the sub cross-over point to make it fit the natural cut-off of my speakers using REW. Might not be perfectly flat, but it's for a living room hi-fi, not audiophile. I guess untamed room modes and residual SBIR have more effect.
Part of my question was about the pad effect on the main speakers. Will it degrade their sound?
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Post by Ethan Winer on Apr 17, 2016 17:06:54 GMT
No, resistors will not harm frequency response, or add distortion or noise.
--Ethan
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Trdat
Junior Member
Posts: 78 
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Post by Trdat on Jan 25, 2017 5:12:16 GMT
Hello Ethan and other participants,
I think this is the best place to ask a few questions regarding crossovers and integrating a sub for 2 channel listening. I have a NAD C-356DAC amp with PBS Bookshelf speakers and I am looking at adding a sub-woofer which I already have. There are a few things confusing me and need to get my head around...
1. My 2 channel system has a built in DAC. Would I loose my DAC if I connect to a digital active crossover(which incorporates bass management software) to integrate my sub? I am presuming I do cause the laptop connects to the crossover then connects with RCA into the RCA of the NAD amp... (Bypassing the DAC module)
2. If so, then I presuming that I need to buy a crossover which has a DAC that is on par or better quality than my current DAC, how do I go about that, what price point would I need to start from or any other recommendations? Ultimately my research has led me to consider either no crossover or to purchase a Xilica crossover as the digital processor is of good quality and I will benefit from a good crossover management system am I on right track?
I also have understood that there are ways to go around it such as a DAC module which feeds into an analog crossover but unfortunately my DAC is made for my amp and cannot be used for other purposes. This idea is out but I thought ill mention it cause there could be something in terms of connecting things.
Less importantly a quick understanding on what will I miss out on if connecting a sub without a crossover? What is the improvement in the sound quality for 2 channel listening with a quality crossover say spending under 1k?
Kindest Regards
Trdat
I know there are a lot fo questions but you get my drift with where I am headed.
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Post by arnyk on Jan 25, 2017 12:11:22 GMT
Hello Ethan and other participants, I think this is the best place to ask a few questions regarding crossovers and integrating a sub for 2 channel listening. I have a NAD C-356DAC amp with PBS Bookshelf speakers and I am looking at adding a sub-woofer which I already have. There are a few things confusing me and need to get my head around... 1. My 2 channel system has a built in DAC. Would I loose my DAC if I connect to a digital active crossover(which incorporates bass management software) to integrate my sub? I am presuming I do cause the laptop connects to the crossover then connects with RCA into the RCA of the NAD amp... (Bypassing the DAC module) 2. If so, then I presuming that I need to buy a crossover which has a DAC that is on par or better quality than my current DAC, how do I go about that, what price point would I need to start from or any other recommendations? Ultimately my research has led me to consider either no crossover or to purchase a Xilica crossover as the digital processor is of good quality and I will benefit from a good crossover management system am I on right track? I also have understood that there are ways to go around it such as a DAC module which feeds into an analog crossover but unfortunately my DAC is made for my amp and cannot be used for other purposes. This idea is out but I thought ill mention it cause there could be something in terms of connecting things. Less importantly a quick understanding on what will I miss out on if connecting a sub without a crossover? What is the improvement in the sound quality for 2 channel listening with a quality crossover say spending under 1k? The best way to connect a sub involves using an active crossover. As I read the available literature on the NAD amp you seem to b e describing, it is an ideal candidate for that arrangment: NAD DAC LinkThe key feature for the ideal form of subwoofer integration has nothing to do with the inputs of the NAD, digital or not. The key feature for ideal subwoofer integration is the presence of Pre amp out and amplifier inputs on the right end of the back panel RCA jack strip on the amplifier. What you do is remove the jumper between Preamp Out 2 and Amp In, and interpose the active crossover for the subwoofer at that point. A stereo interconnect cable runs from the Preamp Out jacks to the inputs of the subwoofer crossover. Another stereo interconnect cable runs from the outputs of the subwoofer, back to the Amp In of the amplifier.  Note that in your case the box labelled "Receiver/Pre Amp" and "Receiver/Amp" are both contained inside of your NAD amplifier. |
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Trdat
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Post by Trdat on Jan 25, 2017 13:08:11 GMT
Dear Arnyk,
Thanks for your reply. I have not come across this option before.
Although its a lot to take in I hoping a few answers might make me understand the overall picture better.
So the idea is that the active crossover is between the Sub and NAD receiver? If this is the case I'm presuming that my current MDC DAC module will still be used in the digital processing of my music from my laptop...?
And does this way of connecting the crossover filter out the bass frequencies(with bass management software with the crossover) from my main bookshelf speakers?
Or is it simply that connecting this way offers the NAD amps crossovers? And if so again does that filter out bass frequencies from bookshelves?
IF I have totally understood wrong I will need to take some time to understand a little better sorry for amateur questions.
Regards
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Post by arnyk on Jan 25, 2017 15:21:51 GMT
Dear Arnyk, Thanks for your reply. I have not come across this option before. Although its a lot to take in I hoping a few answers might make me understand the overall picture better. So the idea is that the active crossover is between the Sub and NAD receiver? No. The active crossover is interposed between the preamp and power amp sections of the NAD gear, as shown in the linked document "NAD DAC Link" above. The sub also has its own power amp that is drive through the crossover as well. Exactly. |
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Trdat
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Post by Trdat on Feb 19, 2017 8:57:21 GMT
Firstly thanks Arnyk for your reply.
Dear Ethan and Arnyk,
After more reading I have a basic understanding of where the crossover fits into the above system.
I am also convinced that integrating a sub with a quality crossover will definitely improve my 2 channel listening.
I chose an analog crossover, the Marchlands XM66 crossover which allows me to use my current inbuilt DAC module and play around with some options to integrate sub as good as I can but it seems that time delay between sub and mains is something difficult to get right or impossible to get at all from some research that I have come across. Or do the the options on the XM66 crossover be enough to get it close enough?
IF I wanted to take the next step what is recommended say under 1k to perfect the time delay between the subs and main? Would a software such as Dirac take care of this or is there a quality sub that might have some functions that could take care of this...?
I am aware that the crossover and an additional software might seem expensive especially when I could of purchased a integrated amp with a bass management system but it is what it is but think DIY upgrades are rewarding.
My set up basically is a NADC356BEE with DAC, PSB XB bookshelfs, Marchlands Xm66 variable crossover with a "cheap" Jamo Sub 200 and also with 20 bass traps in a 16 by 10 by 8 room.
KIndest Regards
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Post by arnyk on Feb 20, 2017 13:23:31 GMT
Firstly thanks Arnyk for your reply. Dear Ethan and Arnyk, After more reading I have a basic understanding of where the crossover fits into the above system. I am also convinced that integrating a sub with a quality crossover will definitely improve my 2 channel listening. I chose an analog crossover, the Marchlands XM66 crossover which allows me to use my current inbuilt DAC module and play around with some options to integrate sub as good as I can but it seems that time delay between sub and mains is something difficult to get right or impossible to get at all from some research that I have come across. Or do the the options on the XM66 crossover be enough to get it close enough? IF I wanted to take the next step what is recommended say under 1k to perfect the time delay between the subs and main? Would a software such as Dirac take care of this or is there a quality sub that might have some functions that could take care of this...? I am aware that the crossover and an additional software might seem expensive especially when I could of purchased a integrated amp with a bass management system but it is what it is but think DIY upgrades are rewarding. My set up basically is a NADC356BEE with DAC, PSB XB bookshelfs, Marchlands Xm66 variable crossover with a "cheap" Jamo Sub 200 and also with 20 bass traps in a 16 by 10 by 8 room. KIndest Regards This product has all the features you need, including delay: Digital crossoverIt is sold as a DSP hardware box with necessary additional interfaces connectors, etc. DSP hardware A software package that runs on the DSP and is loaded and tuned using a computer (PC or MAC) via USB 2 channel, 4 output crossoverWhile its superior and ultra-flexible facilities for acting as a crossover can be fully exploited without additional test equipment, inexpensive but highly effective accoustic test equipment to upgrade to precision measurements and adjustments using software and a measurement-type mic are available. |
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Trdat
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Post by Trdat on Mar 3, 2017 11:01:31 GMT
Thanks Arnyk,
I've gone deep into crossovers and digital room correction and I am sure there is an argument for and against my desicion but I've have opted in for a analoge crossover such as Marchland and the use of a DRC on my laptop to get correct impulse response.
Slightly of the subject, but in future if I want to upgrade my DAC and add a preamp/DAC I'm presuming with the above diagram you showed to connect my crossover with the crossover inputs to the PREOUT2 and the high pass into the MAINS of my amp, I won't be able to connect another preamp/Dac?
Kindest Regards
Masis
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