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Post by chuledp on May 25, 2016 22:36:23 GMT
Hi. I´m Julian from Argentina and finally i started to treat my room, or at least buying materials for the absortion panels. I'll post some photos and diagrams made by a friend. In the next post i'll be explaining some situations and doubts. First the 3d renders:    Now photos of the room. Front Wall,Desk and closet with a lot of glass  Left side  Right side  Rear wall (right side)  Rear Wall (middle and left side)  Continues in next Post... |
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Post by chuledp on May 25, 2016 23:16:10 GMT
Well, there are some things... First all the rockwool panels that i bought are 1.20x60x5cm (48x24x2") 50kg/m2 of density. I placed my seat (it will be a better chair) in the 38% of the room. 1) The bass traps of the front wall (in stands) will be 15cm (6") deep but, i thought, what happens if i use two panels with a 2 inches air gap in the middle? I mean, panel/air/panel (2" each)? 2) The front wall,behind my speakers (btw, those are KRK VXT 6) is full of glass, basicaly a windows. But i l put 3 panels hanging in front of the glass. This is a correct solution? I discover that if I open the glass doors, the bass response gets better, not so boomy. 3) The rear wall, aside of bass traps...what can i do with those windows? Cover with a acoustic fabric curtain? Or a regular thick curtain gets the job done? 4) One thing i didn't put in the 3d Render is the Heater in the right side...maybe i can put some panels higher y L on top of the heater...or is it madness and very dangerous? The heater throws the most of the heat outside of the house...i don't know how they call those in USA, But the heat is dry and very subtle. 5)What about lowering the ceiling? I have a very high ceiling and i thought that lowering just above the seat,desk and monitors can help. If the celing in the listeners position, at least, have absorption panels, sholud i buy some rugs for the floor? Or maybe i can make "two sections" one with absorption lowered ceiling, and another one with rug in floor, no lowered ceiling for recording som stuff? 6) I'll construct some 3 sections panels on stands, like "The Quiet Zone" Panels of Real Traps (sorry ethan, its impossible to buy your panels here in Arg  ). Is this necessary? or is better to use this 3 panels elsewhere? Oh, i have all the software to do some room sound test...but i don't have the mic. I have a Rode Nt1-a... can i use that? or i have to get a proper omni room mic for measurements? Well, that's it for the moment. Thank you!!! |
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Post by Hexspa on May 26, 2016 14:09:40 GMT
Hi, welcome. I liked your idea until I saw the live pics. Here's my advice: 1. Take everything out of the room including that étagère. 2. Flip your orientation so you'll be facing that window. 3. Stuff that rear wall cavity with insulation. 4. Keep it simple and proceed as normal - panels across corners/superchunks, RFZ. Here's a suggestion with the image - I can't make it any more detailed due to lack of image editing training. Thanks, -m  |
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Post by Ethan Winer on May 26, 2016 17:56:34 GMT
what happens if i use two panels with a 2 inches air gap in the middle? You're already getting good advice, so I'll just say that an air gap between panels is not a good idea. Put the panels adjacent to be thicker, then space the bundle off the wall for better performance. --Ethan |
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Post by chuledp on May 26, 2016 19:49:19 GMT
Thanks to both of you! Some question remaining... But before the question, i've to say that...YES! All of that sh*t in my bedroom is going to fly away. Now is a mess, but i prefer to keep some mess until i treat my room correctly. The orientation of the room was right!! The current orientation is new, i flip all the furniture (minus that glass closet or étagère). I thought the planned orientation was right cause, in the other way i had one window at front wall and another window at early reflection points. And if i had to lower the ceiling, having to concrete walls is better than one wall and one window  Now the questions: Considering the orientation is already flipped: 1) Reading other threads i notice that is preferred to builds panels of (minimum) 4" deep instead of 2"...the 2" thick panels are good in some situations?? 2) What about the front and right side wall...with those windows. Put some panels on it, and that's it? if are at ear level, is correct? What about window's glass? 3) If i take out the rear etagere (nice word  , "stuff it with insolation" all that space? Or putting some absorption panels will do it? I appreciate if both, of anyone who wants, answer me those questions. And if i have more doubts, i'll make more questions. Sorry if i'm a little lost...but those windows and glass closet are an enigma for me and room treatment. Thank you very much for your patience and time!! |
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Post by Hexspa on May 27, 2016 3:20:16 GMT
Hey chuledp. Thanks for considering my opinion. To be direct, I don't completely understand what you're saying but I'll reiterate: I stand by placing where the glass cabinet is behind you. The front wall isn't an early reflection point. The side windows can be covered by absorption no problem 4, 6 and 8" are all good. 2" is only for RFZ if you can't afford thicker or you're perhaps just doing podcasts (for AM radio) where bass isn't as big of an issue. It is better than nothing though. Be sure to use an equidistant air gap behind any and all flat-oriented panels. Ear level, use a mirror. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLVjHfHahgrealtraps.com/art_room-setup.htmÉtagère is a nice word, isn't it? How convenient that you own one. Similarly to your inquiry about 2" vs 4", pink fluffy insulation (i.e. Owens Corning R19) would be ideal for that cavity because it's cheaper and more effective at such thicknesses. But, since you're asking about just using panels, it'd be great to just use 4" panels everywhere with a 4-12" air gap behind. Without getting technical, absorption, and as much as you can afford (without selling your glass heirloom) will likely be appropriate. 4", everywhere, face the window, good luck. -m PS - if that huge cabinet belongs to your mom, just put it in storage and tell her you sold it. Depending on her reaction, just sell it and buy insulation. |
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Post by Ethan Winer on May 27, 2016 20:00:27 GMT
Again I need to add very little:
The front wall isn't a reflection point, so the common advice to add too-thin insulation there is wrong. But thick absorbers meant as bass traps are useful everywhere including the front wall.
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Post by chuledp on May 27, 2016 21:17:06 GMT
Thank you so much again.
To summarize.
1)Bass traps are never enough. Is a priority in corners (wall corner, floor-wall, ceiling-wall corners) but in other places works too.
2)For RFZ like the first reflection points a 2" panel works (with the same gap in both walls). But again, thicker absorber is always better (if it's in budget)
3) For parallel walls place some scattered 2" absortion panels to reduce midhigh freqs and to avoid flutter/ringing effect
4) Front Wall (behind the speakers) 4" absorbers
5) Rear Wall Stuff it with fluffy materials.
thanks again!!!
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Post by Hexspa on May 28, 2016 2:31:49 GMT
Thank you so much again. To summarize. 1)Bass traps are never enough. Is a priority in corners (wall corner, floor-wall, ceiling-wall corners) but in other places works too. 2)For RFZ like the first reflection points a 2" panel works (with the same gap in both walls). But again, thicker absorber is always better (if it's in budget) 3) For parallel walls place some scattered 2" absortion panels to reduce midhigh freqs and to avoid flutter/ringing effect 4) Front Wall (behind the speakers) 4" absorbers 5) Rear Wall Stuff it with fluffy materials. thanks again!!! Yes but I'd like to add: 1. 3 surface corners are your priority among corners (where two walls and a floor or ceiling meet - there's four of them. Then there's your 12 remaining corners - extensions of those initial crucial four - that are two-surface.) But yes, prioritize there in conjunction with RFZ. 2. I started with 2" RFZ (including misplacing them). In fact I've yet to finish my current room where I'll be using 4" RFZ. But 2" definitely works. 3. This is definitely your last concern - more of a general aesthetic concern. The exception to that is recording i.e. will you be using a dedicated, super absorbent corner of your room to record vocals, soloists or multitracking or having larger ensembles or instruments strewn about.. Still I'd focus on getting your listening position straight before tackling secondary measures. Given that your render has speakers and a listening position I'm assuming that's your priority. 4. Yes but only after the rear wall. I think Ethan has fleshed this out but, though speakers tend to be omnidirectional radiators towards lower frequencies they're still maintaining some measure of directionality. Therefore, since they're firing toward your rear wall over the majority (if not all) of their operating range, you should treat that wall ahead of your front wall. In fact I think he mentioned it in the Ultimate Home Studio video www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSX14geMw-c5. A continuation of #4. (above) but really you'll probably be shocked at the effect that will have. So priority is: three-point corners, RFZ and all other corners. Then stuffing your rear wall and secondary concerns like a recording space, optimizing modal absorption and aesthetic considerations - at least that's how I think of it. Have fun! -m |
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Post by Hexspa on May 28, 2016 2:46:07 GMT
Lastly, afaik, you will need an omnidirectional mic to do measurements. There are affordable options and, surprisingly, the Radio Shack digital meter is a viable option should you have one available.
-m
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Post by Hexspa on May 28, 2016 2:52:35 GMT
Ok, that wasn't lastly.
I just looked at the dimensions of your room and it suffers in volume - meaning it's small.
Parallel surface panels are not an aesthetic consideration in this case so don't think about flutter echo. Your efforts will be to combat the modal response of the room.
What I'm saying is try to get as much absorption as possible - still in the order I mentioned but even extra flat-surface panels will be doing more than "just" reducing ambience. This is a great example of where 4" are useful since that will improve the low-end response a lot.
Thanks,
-m
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Post by chuledp on May 28, 2016 16:16:02 GMT
Amazing info!!! Thanks a lot, hexspa!!
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Post by Ethan Winer on May 28, 2016 17:24:16 GMT
Yes, you got great advice from Mr. M. Hex (who was that masked man?), and from your post above it's clear that you totally get it.  |
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Post by Hexspa on May 28, 2016 23:50:13 GMT
(who was that masked man?) I ask myself the same |
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). Is this necessary? or is better to use this 3 panels elsewhere?
, "stuff it with insolation" all that space? Or putting some absorption panels will do it?