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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 12:02:49 GMT
Hi there! I am new to this forum and am about to convert my garage to a recording room / mixing room and would really appreciate any advice.
My garage is a single garage with a 8.7ft ceiling and it is 20ft long. It is around 10ft wide. The material the walls are made of is concrete except for the ceiling which could be drywall.
I think the best bet is to work in a completely dry space as the dimensions don't really seem that great and I can always get reverb later on my tracks. I understand how absorption works and I understand more is better. I also understand if you use thick absorption low density is better. I also understand that having an air gap behind the absorption is also great as it helps the absorption coefficient. So basically I guess I am hoping to get advice on how to do this so that I can get my DIY gear and start. I was thinking of using 2ft all around and having one foot of absorption with one foot of air. I would leave the floor to be concrete. So having this much absorption will make the room considerably smaller but I think that it may just be able to tame some of those low end guitar frequencies which are between 100 and 250Hz. I could use a low density fiberglass but I don't know where to even start with regards to building. How are these things done? Could someone either help me by giving me direct advice or pointing me to a place that provides some kind of advice or even better - a tutorial - on how to build these false walls? I have worked with drywall so have some DIY skills and know about studs and how to mount them (not across the ceiling though) so I guess that may help but I am open to any method.
**Ethan if you get to read this: your advice has always been awesome and of an unbiased nature so I would really like some feedback from you if you can swing it.
thanks a million!
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Post by Ethan Winer on Jul 11, 2016 17:25:20 GMT
I like the way you think! But you don't need to give up two feet all around. That's a good idea for the front and the rear, but I'd go thinner on the sides and ceiling. For the sides and ceiling you can use 4-inch thick 703 with 4-8 inches of fluffy fiberglass behind, for a total thickness of 8 to 12 inches. I also suggest using paper-faced material in key places to ncreae LF absorption. I'd have paper on the entire front wall, the perimeter around the ceiling (leave the center fully absorbing for recording), and the corners in the rear.
--Ethan
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Post by Hexspa on Jul 11, 2016 18:48:57 GMT
Wow, Ethan you just gave me a plan for proceeding in my room - thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 21:58:09 GMT
I like the way you think! But you don't need to give up two feet all around. That's a good idea for the front and the rear, but I'd go thinner on the sides and ceiling. For the sides and ceiling you can use 4-inch thick 703 with 4-8 inches of fluffy fiberglass behind, for a total thickness of 8 to 12 inches. I also suggest using paper-faced material in key places to ncreae LF absorption. I'd have paper on the entire front wall, the perimeter around the ceiling (leave the center fully absorbing for recording), and the corners in the rear. --Ethan Thanks for your advice Ethan. I can't really get my hands on 703 or pink fluffy but I can get something in between the two in terms of density. Here is a pic of it. www.ecowiseinsulation.net/images/site/gallery/metac1.jpgWould using something like this work? I guess the bigger question that I have has to do with how to actually create these false walls DIY style made of basically nothing but fiberglass. This stuff isn't rigid enough to stand up on its own so may sag. Any ideas?
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Post by rock on Jul 12, 2016 11:42:36 GMT
I've always got ideas but they're not always good:) Sounds like you need some way to support whatever kind of batts you use and I think you'll also need something to staple a fabric covering. If you're covering say the entire front or back wall, a wood frame floor to ceiling should keep the batts supported. You probably don't need 2x4s, maybe you can get away with 1x4s. Putting horizontal braces between the studs half way up the wall might be need to help keep the structure from resonating. Look at how Hexspa made his corner super chunks, you probably use wood too.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by Hexspa on Jul 12, 2016 11:52:00 GMT
Ya I'm going to post the construction detail video on Thursday. Maybe the way I use drywall bead can give you ideas.
-m
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 20:03:32 GMT
I've always got ideas but they're not always good:) Sounds like you need some way to support whatever kind of batts you use and I think you'll also need something to staple a fabric covering. If you're covering say the entire front or back wall, a wood frame floor to ceiling should keep the batts supported. You probably don't need 2x4s, maybe you can get away with 1x4s. Putting horizontal braces between the studs half way up the wall might be need to help keep the structure from resonating. Look at how Hexspa made his corner super chunks, you probably use wood too. Cheers, Rock Thanks Rock. I have made frames with 2 X 4's before but that was using rigid material and that was a thiner absorber. If I use the 8inch insulation I don't think 2 X 4's will work with they? I think they would be too thin unless I'm missing something
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Post by rock on Jul 12, 2016 21:39:41 GMT
I thought you said you wanted to make a wall of fiberglass. I'm saying to build a wood frame wall to wall ceiling to floor. Just like if you were building a partition wall. Hang your fiberglass in the wall, let the excess thickness hang out the back, (no one will see it because it's inside your false wall). If you want to make it two feet deep, build the frame two feet from the wall. If you want to fill it completely, you can roll out batts and stack them to the ceiling behind the insulation stapled to the the wall to wall frame you built. You can staple fabric on the frame wall to wall, ceiling to floor.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Jul 13, 2016 3:34:27 GMT
I re-read your initial post and I see you're looking for "Direct Advice" on how to build a false wall. I'm sorry, I can't give you drawn plans etc. but I can say that all you really need is to get the fiberglass across the corners or spaced from the walls and the ceiling. As long as you get it in the right places, how you do it is unimportant acoustically, you can actually throw un-opened bales in the corners and around the room to get significant results. On thing you should do though, is to cover whatever FG you use with "Open" fabric. I should mention that I think treating the entire wall as I mentioned above, is easier than building many 2'x4' frames and hanging each one at a time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 6:52:22 GMT
You can get away with using the fluffy 'In wall' between sheets of plasterboard, but using it un supported as bass traps - it will sag like crazy - as you guessed. If you want some general clues on building have a look at my thread on Ethans old site - there is plenty of pictures to go at. You will find a link in the first post of Wall Boundary Trapping part III.
It is not difficult with a little bit of DIY skill. You just need to ensure 100% seal to help stop flanking noise as mentioned. More mass = less sound travel.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 8:36:19 GMT
I thought you said you wanted to make a wall of fiberglass. I'm saying to build a wood frame wall to wall ceiling to floor. Just like if you were building a partition wall. Hang your fiberglass in the wall, let the excess thickness hang out the back, (no one will see it because it's inside your false wall). If you want to make it two feet deep, build the frame two feet from the wall. If you want to fill it completely, you can roll out batts and stack them to the ceiling behind the insulation stapled to the the wall to wall frame you built. You can staple fabric on the frame wall to wall, ceiling to floor. Cheers, Rock Hi Rock! Thanks again for your input. I have a few questions. But first please see the material I am using (I haven't decided on 6 or 8 inch thickness) www.ecowiseinsulation.net/images/site/gallery/metac1.jpgIsn't this material too thick to staple? Also, I would have a metal frame so could the fiberglass still be stapled onto it? I would also like to clarify that my idea initially was to build the false wall of insulation and have an air gap behind it. so if I was using 8inch insulation, I would have an 8 inch gap from the wall to give me better absorption. I have experience with building frames because I used them for drywall in the past so the problem for me is not there. It is how to attach the insulation to the studs without sagging. thanks a lot for your time and help
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 8:40:26 GMT
I re-read your initial post and I see you're looking for "Direct Advice" on how to build a false wall. I'm sorry, I can't give you drawn plans etc. but I can say that all you really need is to get the fiberglass across the corners or spaced from the walls and the ceiling. As long as you get it in the right places, how you do it is unimportant acoustically, you can actually throw un-opened bales in the corners and around the room to get significant results. On thing you should do though, is to cover whatever FG you use with "Open" fabric. I should mention that I think treating the entire wall as I mentioned above, is easier than building many 2'x4' frames and hanging each one at a time. Hi again! I am in agreement with you 100% that a whole wall would be easier than individual frames. So again, the only hold up for me is that this insulation is not rigid and will sag and I am not sure how to attach it to the false wall. Covering it with fabric from the other side at the end is also easy enough. It is just getting the stuff attached vertically between the studs
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 8:47:23 GMT
You can get away with using the fluffy 'In wall' between sheets of plasterboard, but using it un supported as bass traps - it will sag like crazy - as you guessed. If you want some general clues on building have a look at my thread on Ethans old site - there is plenty of pictures to go at. You will find a link in the first post of Wall Boundary Trapping part III. It is not difficult with a little bit of DIY skill. You just need to ensure 100% seal to help stop flanking noise as mentioned. More mass = less sound travel. Hi Steve Could you please share a link. Where can I find this info? also, as I said above toRock, I do know how to create false walls and have some DIY skills as I have built my own studio before using false walls of steel framing and drywall. But just not with this kind of insulation. It is thicker and it sags. If your thread helps with this I would very much like to read it thank you!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 11:49:24 GMT
As I said above - link is in my first post of Trapping Part III on this forum To stop it sagging just make the stud work very slightly smaller dimensionally than the fluffy so it wedges into place, and the thickness of the dry wall slightly thinner - this then holds it vertically as well and applies a small amount of damping to the sheetrock. Its standard stuff over here to build like that - they rarely use rock wool batts on internal walls. If you have done it before - then you will find it easy. Isover do produce 1200mm x 600 batts for inwall use - I have used them in the past. I would ask if they are available to order.
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Post by rock on Jul 13, 2016 13:12:57 GMT
If you're in the US, you should be able to find stuff like this: www.google.com/search?q=paper+faced+insulation&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS615US615&espv=2&biw=1241&bih=906&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2v_r9u_DNAhVFJCYKHRPWC9EQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=l-jI8jneHIZ7QM%3AFor your front wall, Ethan said you could use all paper because it is not a reflection point so you can staple the paper to the frames. If you want to fill the space behind, you can also roll out unfaced insulation on the floor behind the wall... layer upon layer up to the ceiling, sure, the bottom layers will compress but only to a point, if you're worried about that, your can build in some kind of support every few feet or so or suspend them with twine from the ceiling...If you're going to DIY, you have to work with what you've got and experiment and improvise. I don't think anyone does this kind of thing exactly the same way. Here's a link for insulation nails www.google.com/search?q=insulation+nails&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS615US615&espv=2&biw=1241&bih=906&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3sLL0wfDNAhWK7SYKHeiSCBgQ_AUIBygCI built a frame like I'm suggesting back in the 80's but it was flush against the existing wall and only 3.5" thick with mineral wool covered with burlap. I didn't know any better. With what I know today, I would do it differently, possibly something like I'm suggesting but I would be experimenting too, but I'd get it to work somehow and I'm sure you'll figure it out too. Cheers Rock
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