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Post by vego99 on Sept 1, 2016 16:24:40 GMT
Hello everyone!
Ethan, thank you for creating this page!
I am currently awating the settlement of my new house. Once the house is completed and I move in, I will be working on building a listening room in the basement.
After reading alot of articles on room design/building and find there is alot of conflicing information out there.
Hoping I could get a better sence of how to proceed.
Here are some basic specs.
Foundation is 9' poured concrete with 10" floor joists from the top of the foundation to bottom of the first floor.
Under initial measurement the width of the proposed room is about 15'10" concrete to concrete, length is still to be determined but most likely no longer than 20-24ft.
I've got to think the lenth is going to be determined by the rule of ratios? That being said, if the average height of the ceiling is to be 8.5-9' would it be better to have a smaller more intimate room or a larger one? What ratio should i use to calculate?
From what I have read, it seems as if a Room-within-Room design is preferred. Am i correct by this statement?
The room will have concrete on about 2.5 of the sides, the remaining are open and I will need to inclose them. Should i do a double wall or a 6" plate with staggered studs? ISO Clips/Resilent Channel with 2 layers of drywall/green glue? What about insulation between the studs, roxsul or regular fluffy insulation? On the concrete sides, ive read only one wall is needed because the concrete acts as a second wall. Is this statement correct?
Next question: Ceiling
Whats the best way to incorporate room-in-room ceiling design?
Floating joists or will roxsul/fluff insulation >resilent channel/2layers of rock/green glue be sufficient?
Thanks for all the pending replies. Hoping to have some pictures in the next several week so information can be more detailed.
Erik
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Post by Ethan Winer on Sept 1, 2016 18:22:04 GMT
There are many acceptable ratios, and several of them are listed right on the screen of my Graphical Mode Calculator program. According to this program, 22 feet front to back, by 15'10" wide, by 9 feet high, is pretty darn good! Understand that the modal height of a basement is to the rigid floor above, unless you seal off the joists with sheet rock underneath the joists. Whether you do room-in-a-room or double walls etc depends on how much isolation you need. If you don't need isolation, then don't waste your money or effort on that type of construction. And if you do need isolation, be prepared to lose about one foot in every direction (except the floor). Regardless, all sheet rock walls surrounding an "audio" room should be filled with fluffy insulation, even though they're internal walls and not walls to the outdoors. There's a fair amount about acoustic isolation in my Audio Expert book, but in all honesty this book covers much more because it addresses mostly that: Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros--Ethan
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Post by vego99 on Sept 1, 2016 19:23:34 GMT
Hi Ethan
Thanks for getting back to me!
Yes I will need Isolation to keep late night listening sessions from disturbing people above and would like to limit any foot drops from the room above.
When it comes to the fluffy stuff does it matter what R value i choose? Also why do you prefer this over the Roxul type insulation.. ie safe and sound.
Erik
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Post by Ethan Winer on Sept 3, 2016 20:21:31 GMT
As far as I know, the R value is tied to the thickness. So if your wall spaces are six inches you'll use whatever insulation is six inches thick, and so forth. Any fluffy "attic" insulation is fine. Buy whatever is cheapest.
--Ethan
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Post by Hexspa on Sept 3, 2016 21:13:09 GMT
As far as I know, the R value is tied to the thickness. So if your wall spaces are six inches you'll use whatever insulation is six inches thick, and so forth. Any fluffy "attic" insulation is fine. Buy whatever is cheapest. --Ethan Actually the R value is tied to it's ability to retain heat. It so happens to be proportional to thickness but that's what they say on the Owens Corning site.
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Post by rock on Sept 5, 2016 2:03:19 GMT
Hexspa, The R value is related to the resistance of the transfer of heat. So you're right but just have it backwards. We all know what you're trying to say.
Related to Ethan's comment, if you check the data sheets, you'll see the denser materials can have a bit more R value than the same thickness of fluffy... but, when the density is held constant, the R value generally increases directly proportional to the thickness.
Eric, Ethan's suggestion to get Rod's book to get the best isolation is imperative. I wish I knew this stuff way back when. The stuff I built back than was OK, but it would have been SOOO much better If I had known the information that is readily available today!
Cheers, Rock
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Post by Hexspa on Sept 5, 2016 6:45:46 GMT
Cool Rock.
Congrats on your promotion!
-m
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Post by rock on Sept 5, 2016 18:52:34 GMT
Woo Hoo!
Thanks, Rock
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Post by vego99 on Sept 7, 2016 16:50:12 GMT
Thanks for all the replys the book "Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros" arrived yesterday!
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Post by vego99 on Jan 9, 2017 20:13:33 GMT
Hello everyone, I am bringing this thread back from the dead! New House is built, all moved in. Baby is starting to crawl so that means i need to start working on my basement listening room. Now that I am in the house, I was able to get proper dimensions rather than just guessing it off of rough plans and figures. Ive also added pictures. Here are some of the facts that i can provide. 15'8" wide 21' long ( concrete to beam) Height is tricky... As mentioned before, I optioned to have 9' foundation walls. What i didnt figure was I wasnt going to get a total of 9' because of the concrete floor and ducting. Here is what i measured. Floor to I beam Joists = 8'10" Floor to top of I beam Joists = 9'5" Floor to Bottom of Ibeam/ducting = 8' When I was starting to plan this project I initially considered doing an entire room inside room contruction to make it completely isolated. While this would be great, I started thinking about the costs involved, time involved and is it really necessary. My main goal is to create a listening room that can house my audio equipment, records and other music formats. With in this goal i would like to isolate it enough where i can listen to my music during the night time hours without disturbing a sleeping baby or wife. I also want the room to sound good! That being said. with the dimensions given, could a single framed insulated walls work just fine? What about the ceiling, I'm assume that I should take advantage of the height floor to top of stud dimension. Can I get away with using roxsul / fluffy insulation then a suspended Ceiling? Since there is ducting and joists in the way, do i make the ceiling all one height with a suspended cieling or should i do different levels to make it look more spacious? You will also notice the builder insulated the foundation walls. Is this a good thing? Thoughts? Thanks for all your help.. Erik Picture #1 Looking at the front wall of the proposed room. The pole on the right would be the back wall 21' front to back Basement project by vego99, on Flickr Second Picture - you can see the struggle i have with the Steel beams and ducting. I am also thinking about putting a door in to the room on this wall. Basement project by vego99, on Flickr Picture #3 another side angle. Basement project by vego99, on Flickr Picture 4: Another angle looking towards the back of the proposed room. Basement project by vego99, on Flickr
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Post by rock on Jan 9, 2017 23:01:06 GMT
Erik,
Nice space, looks good. I'll comment on isolation: It all depends on how loud you want to play your music (especially low end) AND how quiet your family upstair's want's it.
It is very subjective and it's impossible for anyone to guess; even you. If you don't want to go "all out isolation" at least do some tests: Measure the SPL of the basement playing loud sound (with the bass content you usually play) then go up stairs and measure what comes through the floor. Next lower the music to an acceptable "upstairs" level and measure again. You will then have a number of SPL attenuation you will need to play your music as loud as you want and to have it quiet enough up stairs.
At this point, with Rod's book and published data, you should be able to plan your isolation construction project.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by vego99 on Jan 10, 2017 0:38:07 GMT
Rock,
Thanks for the suggestion, i did not think of that... Need to set up a temporary rig downstairs and do some testing. I just cant get frequencies below 50hz with the other speakers i have.
Given a majority of the room is already concrete, I would only have to do double wall on 1.5 of the side if I wanted to get more advanced with the isolation?
What about ceiling, can roxsul/fluffy and suspended ceiling reduce a significant amount or would a sheet rock ceiling be the only way?
Thanks again,
Erik
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Post by Hexspa on Jan 10, 2017 10:25:39 GMT
I would say forget about isolation.
The baby will adjust. Wife too. Plus, I rarely play music THAT loud - there's just no need.
The reason is because you want maximum ceiling height for the best acoustics possible.
Doing an absorptive ceiling would sound better than one rockwalled off and then a cloud hanging from it - plus less expensive and time-consuming; and for how much less isolation?
True isolation requires more than a layer of sheetrock. It's multiple layers with offsets and all types of stuff.
-m
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Post by vego99 on Jan 10, 2017 12:57:17 GMT
Correction on the max height. Concrete to top of joists is 9'8".
Here's another thought. What if I if were to cut sheet rock the same width between joists and place two layers sandwiched with green glue. Would that help with some of the noise going up stairs?
Floorboard J Drywall J o GrenGlu o i Drywall i s air s t insul t Framed Fabric
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Post by rock on Jan 10, 2017 13:45:56 GMT
Hey Hexspa,
Even though you're right about the ceiling height etc., I disagree with your advice to out of hand forget about isolation. It's a very subjective thing and I believe Erik needs to determine that for himself. I have built and used a few isolated rooms and IMO, being able to blast in one room and hear only a faint whisper in the next, is a beautiful thing! Sure it takes planning, effort and money but Erik has Rod's book and that's more than I had when I was building studios:)
Erik, yes to adding mass (drywall between joists) to the floor above; I saw that in Rod's book. I believe you need to caulk the edges where the DW meets the joists. Also check with your builder to see for how much load the floor is designed. Rod hangs out on "Gearslutz" look for acoustics and see if you can get some ideas there too.
Cheers, Rock
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