|
|
Post by Timpish on Nov 24, 2016 7:31:48 GMT
Hi All—total noob here who just bought his first pair of 'decent' speakers (Wharfedale Denton 80ths) and I'm wondering if I should consider biwiring (not biamping as I have a single amp) as they do have four binding posts? I've read bunch of very antagonistic threads all over the Internet about this topic and it seems there's strong opinions (from famous loudspeaker designers, EEs, bioacoustics PhDs and others) on both sides of the argument. I'm inclined to believe that the science does not support it and would like to know what the Audio Expert thinks. Also, if not biwiring and wiring conventionally, is there any reason to replace the stock jumpers with speaker cable or 'better' jumpers?
|
|
|
|
Post by Hexspa on Nov 24, 2016 10:23:55 GMT
Idk. I biwired my B&W 601's. The manual suggested it, I tried it and liked it.
Then again that was years ago and I'm constantly reminded of how little I can actually aurally discern.
Try it.
-m
|
|
|
|
Post by arnyk on Nov 24, 2016 13:17:58 GMT
Hi All—total noob here who just bought his first pair of 'decent' speakers (Wharfedale Denton 80ths) and I'm wondering if I should consider biwiring (not biamping as I have a single amp) as they do have four binding posts? I've read bunch of very antagonistic threads all over the Internet about this topic and it seems there's strong opinions (from famous loudspeaker designers, EEs, bioacoustics PhDs and others) on both sides of the argument. I'm inclined to believe that the science does not support it and would like to know what the Audio Expert thinks. Also, if not biwiring and wiring conventionally, is there any reason to replace the stock jumpers with speaker cable or 'better' jumpers? Biwiring is one of the best known of the many audiophile myths. From a dealer and manufacturer standpoint its a way to trick people into wasting money on twice as much speaker wire. Far better to have single runs of adequate commodity speaker cable. |
|
|
|
Post by sal1950 on Nov 24, 2016 16:25:36 GMT
Hi All—total noob here who just bought his first pair of 'decent' speakers (Wharfedale Denton 80ths) and I'm wondering if I should consider biwiring (not biamping as I have a single amp) as they do have four binding posts? I've read bunch of very antagonistic threads all over the Internet about this topic and it seems there's strong opinions (from famous loudspeaker designers, EEs, bioacoustics PhDs and others) on both sides of the argument. I'm inclined to believe that the science does not support it and would like to know what the Audio Expert thinks. Also, if not biwiring and wiring conventionally, is there any reason to replace the stock jumpers with speaker cable or 'better' jumpers? A very popular myth with the "everything counts" high end crazies. Heavily supported by the ultra high end manufacturers cult as it will sell 2 sets of $30,000 + speaker cables. This cult works together to put out snake-oil sudo-science information thru the supporting unscrupulous print and web media. Trust the real science. If biwiring does actually cause a audible and measurable change in sound, you weren't using a heavy enough gauge wire in the first place. Cent' Anni Sal |
|
|
|
Post by Timpis on Nov 24, 2016 18:21:18 GMT
Thanks everyone for your replies. It astounds me that there are speakers wires that cost more than I would/could ever spend on a speaker, but I understand hobbies and how we enjoy them so no judgments. I'll most likely not biwire (though it might be worth trying just for the 'fun' of it if one has enough decent cable lying aroung) and go with a good heavy gauge cable (BJC Twelve or Ten White) with decent terminators. What do people think about improving the stock jumpers with the same cable or something like: www.cardas.com/jumpers.phpwire ? Is there (sonically) any reason to do that? |
|
|
|
Post by sal1950 on Nov 24, 2016 18:35:39 GMT
Sonically, I can't see your current jumpers but I very much doubt any improvement. But if his solid jumpers will work with your speaker terms, you can't go wrong for $8 www.cardas.com/jumpers.php |
|
|
|
Post by Timpish on Nov 24, 2016 19:51:19 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by sal1950 on Nov 25, 2016 2:03:46 GMT
Do what ever floats your boat. If you think about it logically the idea that 2 inches of cable or jumper material will have any audible effect is just ridiculous. People saying different are either involved in the financial profit chain at some point or another. Or have just become delusional after being subjected to huge amounts of marketing snake oil. Normal human weaknesses becomes the controlling factor and expectation bias then takes over what you hear. Submit that listener to blind testing and all believed differences magically and instantly disappear. |
|
|
|
Post by arnyk on Nov 25, 2016 13:09:49 GMT
Thanks everyone for your replies. It astounds me that there are speakers wires that cost more than I would/could ever spend on a speaker, but I understand hobbies and how we enjoy them so no judgments. I'll most likely not biwire (though it might be worth trying just for the 'fun' of it if one has enough decent cable lying aroung) and go with a good heavy gauge cable (BJC Twelve or Ten White) with decent terminators. What do people think about improving the stock jumpers with the same cable or something like: www.cardas.com/jumpers.phpwire ? Is there (sonically) any reason to do that? Fancy jumpers are even harder to justify based on science than biwiring. The degree to which an interconnect can make a difference is dependent on its length, and since the jumpers have almost no length at all their actual construction matters very little. Tin can stock would suffice. The Blue Jeans speaker cable 12 gauge is pricey for commodity 12 gauge, but not outrageous. Cable size should be optimized for the length of the cables and the impedance curve of the speakers. If the cables are usual length - say 8 feet or less, 12 gauge is usually overkill. OTOH, I use commodity 12 gauge because it is overkill and lets me worry about things that matter far more, like proper positioning of the speakers. |
|
|
|
Post by Ethan Winer on Nov 25, 2016 17:38:45 GMT
Guys, listen to Arny. Bi-wiring, and replacement jumpers, are both silly and defy all that is known about audio science. For those who might wonder why so many people seem to believe that "wire" makes a difference, I offer this short article: A common-sense explanation of audiophile beliefsThis next short article is related, though it's meant for recording types more than hi-fi and home theater folks: Perception - the Final Frontier |
|
|
|
Post by sal1950 on Nov 25, 2016 17:51:37 GMT
Thanks everyone for your replies. It astounds me that there are speakers wires that cost more than I would/could ever spend on a speaker, but I understand hobbies and how we enjoy them so no judgments. I'll most likely not biwire (though it might be worth trying just for the 'fun' of it if one has enough decent cable lying aroung) and go with a good heavy gauge cable (BJC Twelve or Ten White) with decent terminators. What do people think about improving the stock jumpers with the same cable or something like: www.cardas.com/jumpers.phpwire ? Is there (sonically) any reason to do that? The Blue Jeans speaker cable 12 gauge is pricey for commodity 12 gauge, but not outrageous. I'd say about average for quality wire. The standard gray jacket Belden is $.52 a foot with the custom ordered white jacket stuff up to $.62 a foot. Another great wire source that I've used a few times comes from, skyhighcaraudio.com/They have just about anything you could want in speaker wire at reasonable prices. Most everything they have is also sold off ebay which is were I'm done my prior ordering. CCA rated plain copper or OFC rated, 8 gauge and smaller. Really nice quality stuff IMO.. www.ebay.com/itm/50-feet-OFC-TRUE-12-Gauge-AWG-BL-BK-Oxygen-Free-Speaker-Wire-Car-Home-Audio-/272304486282?hash=item3f669cb78a:g:KOEAAOSwxCxT6loD |
|
|
|
Post by Timpish on Nov 25, 2016 19:48:32 GMT
Thanks again, everyone. Science shall prevail. My runs are short (<6 feet) so I understand even 12-gauge is probably overkill, but that type of overkill never killed anyone—or did it? So, I'll take a pass on Bi-Wiring and jumper repacement and focus on more important things like speaker height, placement and room acoustics and really fancy isolation pads (kidding on the latter); Ehtan's article (http://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm) is how I found this forum. I'll check out those other two you linked, Ethan. I will still probably get decent terminators (bananas) as they afford some other benefits, e.g., preventing shorts, ease of use, etc. Unless going with bare wire is better?
|
|
|
|
Post by sal1950 on Nov 26, 2016 3:26:12 GMT
You'll get lots of opinions on termination. I used to use bare wire for many years but found that on first tighten many strands would break/shear off from the twisting torque. Then the connection would compress over time which required another round of breaking/shearing that would further reduce the actual connected gauge. Switched to bananas quite a few years back. A couple years ago I rebuilt the system with new speakers, amps, etc; and found these on ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/20-Nakamichi-Speaker-banana-plug-Adapter-4mm-Wire-connector-24K-Gold-Plated-/162096760910?hash=item25bdb8484e:g:c-AAAOSwqBJXV6zJInexpensive but well built beyond their pricing. They have 2 set screws on each wire and give a very solid long term connection. I did get some appropriate size heat shrink tubing and shrink a length over each negative connector so the aluminum housings can't touch together from wire strain or whatever and short a channel. Lot's of choices, these were mine.  |
|
|
|
Post by Timpish on Nov 26, 2016 3:49:45 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by sal1950 on Nov 26, 2016 8:33:25 GMT
|
|
