bobc
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Post by bobc on Jan 23, 2017 19:03:57 GMT
Hi All,
I am in the beginning stages of deciding how to treat my room … As you can see I have removed all of the foam panels and patched the walls… Pix were taken last week and I have since repainted..
Room is 18’ X13’ 3”x7’ H . Front and rear walls have knee walls that start at 31” above the floor. Front and rear upper knee walls are 7’ x 13’, Ceiling is the same…
WHere do I begin?
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bobc
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Posts: 20
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Post by bobc on Jan 23, 2017 19:43:37 GMT
Right wall shown , ... can barely see corner/outer edge of right speaker. Attachments:
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Post by Ethan Winer on Jan 23, 2017 22:34:33 GMT
Ah, the perennial question, where to begin? First, thanks for moving this to the forum. Now... How is your room situated? Loudspeakers should always fire the longer way down the room: How To Set Up A RoomSo I need to know that before I can suggest much else because it affects the placement of any treatment you put in. As for treatment, the two keys are bass trapping and reflection control. Bass traps go in corners, and there are also corners at the tops and bottom of the walls. Your room is a little unique with the angles, but there are still planets of place for traps beside wall-wall corners. The entire wall behind you is also a candidate for broadband absorption that extends down to the bass range. You have a window on the left exactly where a reflection panel is needed. Besides stating which way your room is arranged now, lengthwise, it would also help if you can possibly post a basic floor plan showing where the windows and door are. In the mean time, this short article explains the basics: Acoustic Basics
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bobc
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Post by bobc on Jan 23, 2017 22:55:33 GMT
Thanks Ethan,
My speakers fire the long dimension of the room, at the rear angled wall. The left wall has 1 window at the first reflection point and another approx 3.5' from there going towards the rear wall. The 2nd reflection point on that wall falls between the Windows..
On the right wall the 1st reflection point is plaster wall, on that same wall the second reflection point is on the door to the hall...adjacent to that approx 6 " away is a closet door...
Listening seat is 38% away from rear knee wall .. Just under the point where angled wall and flat of ceiling meet Speakers are on equallateral triangle with seat.
Left rear corner has cast iron radiator 36 wide 24" tall.
Ceilings are all 7' x 13'. 2 angled and one flat.
Knee walls are approx 31" tall x 13' wide
Does that help
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bobc
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Posts: 20
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Post by bobc on Jan 23, 2017 23:44:46 GMT
Quick sketch...
Attachments:
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bobc
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by bobc on Jan 24, 2017 14:28:20 GMT
For the record. I have already purchased rock wool insulation, 4" thick, 4 lb density,and built 2 - 24"x72" panels, and 2 - 30"x24" panels.. Have 4 - 24'x48" panels built and ready to hang.. I found a local supplier that has approx. 30 pallets of the stuff in 48x72 panels.. They made an error an over ordered for a job.. So I was able to get a very fair price on it. My panel frames are 5.5" wide pine.
Also , I really would like to consider making frameless panels and covering/filling the windows in..
I have some serious ringing going on...
Just for kicks, I put the 2 - 30X24 panels on the floor leaning against the wall behind the speakers with the 72'X24 panel in between them behind the equipment stand... I also tried 1 of the 24x72 panels on the right wall at 1st reflection point just for kicks..
I could use the 2 - 72"x24 panels as a cloud or at the intersection between ceiling and angled ceiling? I really don't now the best thing to do...
My biggest issue now is the ringing... mid-upper frequency issues...
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Post by Ethan Winer on Jan 25, 2017 18:49:25 GMT
It sounds like you mostly do know what to do. Bass traps can straddle angled wall corners: Mostly you want to put absorbers where sound from the speakers reaches. So that means especially the rear wall behind you, and parts of the side walls and ceiling.
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Post by Hexspa on Jan 27, 2017 3:26:20 GMT
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bobc
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Post by bobc on Jan 29, 2017 17:18:20 GMT
So. I have mounted the 2x4 panels at the 1st reflection points at left and right side walls...and 2x4 clouds at the 1st reflection points on the ceiling... The 2x6 panel is on the front wall floor intersection horizontally with a 24"x30" panel in the corner behind each speaker.. All bass trs are 5.5" deep filled with 4 lb density rock wool.. nothing On front or rear and led walls yet! But, I lost my bass and highs are hard sounding .. I have another 2x6' panel that I was going to mount on the rear wall... I just don't know if I need another trap or to create some diffusion.. It just doesn't sound good
thoughts?
do I need to remove some of the traps?
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Post by Hexspa on Jan 30, 2017 13:45:45 GMT
If anything you'll need more panels.
Did you air gap any of them?
Naturally you'll lose bass but that's not the kind you want anyway. You want direct, not residual, bass.
4lb density rock wool is fairly light if it's similar to mineral wool. If you have five panels up then I'd say quadruple the number then hear if you like it.
-m
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bobc
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by bobc on Jan 30, 2017 14:47:08 GMT
Yes,
4" thick rock wool. 5.5" thick frames.. so 1.5 " air space behind side walls... Plus 4" air space above clouds.
The entire presentation needs to gain weight... Cellos sound like violins.... Bari sax sounds like alto. Voices are thin... No bloom..
Should I place the 6' by 2' panel centered on the rear wall? I would like to do it horizontally.. Then perhaps a 2'X4' panel above and below it on center...
Don't I want some diffusion on the rear wall? Like a Polyfusor 6" deep, radius, with 1/8" ply face?
Confused...
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Post by Ethan Winer on Jan 30, 2017 20:22:43 GMT
Diffusion is useful, but bass problems - lack of bass, too much bass, bass changes all around the room - are solved with bass traps. As for "poly" shaped devices: All About Diffusion
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Post by Hexspa on Jan 31, 2017 8:23:45 GMT
Yes,
4" thick rock wool. 5.5" thick frames.. so 1.5 " air space behind side walls... Plus 4" air space above clouds.
The entire presentation needs to gain weight... Cellos sound like violins.... Bari sax sounds like alto. Voices are thin... No bloom..
Should I place the 6' by 2' panel centered on the rear wall? I would like to do it horizontally.. Then perhaps a 2'X4' panel above and below it on center...
Don't I want some diffusion on the rear wall? Like a Polyfusor 6" deep, radius, with 1/8" ply face?
Confused... The rear wall has been noted to be critical. Absorption of the entire surface is often advised. -m
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bobc
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by bobc on Jan 31, 2017 18:43:05 GMT
So I added the 2'X6' panel to the rear wall ceiling intersection last night.. Now the bari sax sounds like a kazoo... Buzzy and no body...
How about some guidance ? Feel like I am going backwards... and yes I have read all the links you have provided. thankyou!
Looking for specifics please... How do I fix this?
i listened to Ethan playing Bach on his Tele with a backing of violins and strings. It took only 2 notes to hear the weight and bloom of the strings. that is the tone I like.
also, for the last 15 years my office door is 3 feet from Gateway Mastering. I see Bob Ludwig daily and have been in his studio a few times.. He is very kind and is also an Audiophile. His floating slab studio with amplifiers in their own air conditioned little rooms and mastering board is a site to behold.. But listening to music on it was surprising sterile. Powerful and clean but no bloom or midrange magic.. Perhaps the piece he was mastering wasn't done yet.. But that is not the tone that in am after..
to me , music lives in the midrange and its foundation the bass.. That's what I am after
what about adding scatter plates to some of my panels😄
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Post by Hexspa on Feb 1, 2017 3:57:59 GMT
Let's face it - your room is weirdly shaped and small. You don't have enough absorption and, in my experience, it takes years and several iterations of room setups to continually improve your results.
If you don't like the sound in Bob Ludwig's mastering studio I can only surmise that you have better hearing than everyone on the planet, you don't have refined listening capacity or your expectations are unreasonable.
Not to be rude but let's be realistic about what's possible. The whole function of absorption is to modify the effect of the room so that it works for your music as opposed to against it. Depending on how adversely your room is skewing neutrality you might need an amount of treatment beyond what you expect or are comfortable with.
I really don't think scatter plates are the answer here or probably ever.
The answer to life is 42. The answer to small room acoustics is more bass traps.
Thanks,
-m
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