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Post by starandchlorisse on Mar 18, 2016 4:13:36 GMT
Hi Ethan I bought and read your book - well most of it -- which is really great - - ( I should have bought the kindle format since the paperback is too heavy to take it with in the train  ) Anyhow after reading it and reading many of your articles and info, and asking many questions in the previous forum----- I tried to treat our garage. This is the garage after and before: I used ultra touch for the panels and fluffy pink staff. These are the measurements - I used focal cms 50 - ( the right speaker sometimes stops playing i sent it for service but it does not seem to affect the frequency response ) - I used also a piece of foam to cover my desk while measuring with fuzz measure. These are the measurements: I keep adding things -- so I will measure again - also I did not pay attention to clipping _ i dont think it happened but I would measure again any way, Without bass traps with bass traps mono signal both speakers with bass trap right speaker with bass trap left speaker My questions are : 1. Is this any good or I ....misunderstood ...everything  ? 2. Do you recommend trying to improve the range between 100 300 using this design? 3. I would build use 2- 3 diffusers at the back of the room - but would they have any effect between 100 -300 hz? Many thanks for your time. |
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Post by Ethan Winer on Mar 18, 2016 17:46:30 GMT
1. Sure, you did a good job, and the response is clearly much better after adding the treatment. The waterfalls are also greatly improved.
2. You already have the response within a 10 dB window, which is very good!
3. Diffusers do nothing for the bass range. They'd have to be a few feet deep to get down that low, and you don't want to diffuse bass anyway. I imagine your room sounds vastly better now. But if you're determined to continue treating even more, I see a few places on the ceiling and side walls where more absorbing panels could go.
--Ethan
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Post by starandchlorisse on Mar 18, 2016 17:55:53 GMT
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Post by Ethan Winer on Mar 18, 2016 17:58:44 GMT
I never tried that exact design so I can't say for sure how well it works. But anywhere thick bass traps can be put will only improve the LF response.
--Ethan
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Post by Hexspa on Mar 19, 2016 2:02:30 GMT
Congrats on your room; it looks awesome. How did you construct your panel's frames?
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Post by starandchlorisse on Mar 19, 2016 6:08:01 GMT
thanks I did a simple version of this without the backing and the wood in the middle and without being too careful -- thinking that the material is not really heavy - I did not use backing. I built all of them myself --- but after a while considering the learning curve and the expenses I was wondering if ..buying them would be better...it is a simple wooden panel -- I dont think you can save a lot - if you calculate all the material metal corners and the time .... . But if you want to save some you could easily build them... |
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Post by starandchlorisse on Mar 19, 2016 6:21:44 GMT
1. Sure, you did a good job, and the response is clearly much better after adding the treatment. The waterfalls are also greatly improved. 2. You already have the response within a 10 dB window, which is very good! 3. Diffusers do nothing for the bass range. They'd have to be a few feet deep to get down that low, and you don't want to diffuse bass anyway. I imagine your room sounds vastly better now. But if you're determined to continue treating even more, I see a few places on the ceiling and side walls where more absorbing panels could go. --Ethan hi from what I have read : It seems that I could use plastic in the front of the bass traps in the celling and the other parts on the wall as long as they are not at the first reflection points - I took a pic to make that clear - Also I would like to ask - If i build diffusers for the rear wall - how much they would improve the room?approximately ? They will make the frequency response in the mid high frequencies flatter for instance since the reverberation times curve is already somehow flat? many thanks |
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Post by Ethan Winer on Mar 19, 2016 17:30:40 GMT
Yes, if you bond (spray glue) thin plastic film to the front of the rigid fiberglass it will absorb more bass and less treble.
I don't know if diffusers will make the room any flatter at midrange frequencies. It will make the reflections coming back from that wall less "coherent" (so less comb filtering) and make the room seem a bit more spacious.
--Ethan
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Post by Hexspa on Mar 21, 2016 5:27:15 GMT
thanks I did a simple version of this without the backing and the wood in the middle and without being too careful -- thinking that the material is not really heavy - I did not use backing. I built all of them myself --- but after a while considering the learning curve and the expenses I was wondering if ..buying them would be better...it is a simple wooden panel -- I dont think you can save a lot - if you calculate all the material metal corners and the time .... . But if you want to save some you could easily build them... Thanks. I built my panels using this plan. I just put my fabric on the inside for an industrial-looking exposed frame. The frames are functional and cheap if not a bit flimsy. The ones on the floor definitely have some heel dents. |
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Post by starandchlorisse on Apr 19, 2016 5:44:44 GMT
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Post by Ethan Winer on Apr 19, 2016 18:56:48 GMT
What speakers do you have? They're already 20 dB down by 40 Hz, so the additional slight notch at 35 Hz isn't really an issue.
--Ethan
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Post by starandchlorisse on Apr 19, 2016 20:58:23 GMT
What speakers do you have? They're already 20 dB down by 40 Hz, so the additional slight notch at 35 Hz isn't really an issue. --Ethan Hi I have focal cms 50 So do you think that the overall responce is good enough - any room for improvement ? |
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Post by Ethan Winer on Apr 20, 2016 20:54:06 GMT
Your speakers are spec'd as -3 dB at 55 Hz, so that confirms it's not worth worrying about errors at 35 Hz.
As for improvement, there's always room for improvement! More bass traps can only help. But how does it sound now? Do mixes translate okay?
--Ethan
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Post by Hexspa on Apr 22, 2016 4:09:54 GMT
Could you not improve the positioning of your corner traps by angling them at a 45 degree angle and eliminating space between and around them?
With that much treatment I suspect the material you used is not as absorbent as OC 705 or 8lb mineral wool.
Also be sure to space your early reflection and other parallel-surface panels equal to the thickness of the absorber off the wall.
I think with refined placement your response should improve.
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Post by starandchlorisse on Apr 23, 2016 16:07:37 GMT
Thanks Ethan and hexspa I have not mixed anything yet but the sound is really good - however this observation is not an objective marker. I also have to add a sub and measure again. @ hexspa I cannot move the bass traps - there is no way to make them all 45 degrees - and they are all away from the walls more than 6 inches. Ultra touch has really good specs and it is 4 inches thick - the way I used it --I think it performs well. I think from reading Ethan's book and other things and interacting with Ethan -my understanding is that if you have a frequency response in below 300 hz in a 10 db window then you are doing really well and my room response below 300 is in a 8 -9 db window---- which is almost the same in the higher frequencies . I m posting the latest measurements after moving things around. Also the waterfalls look somehow good if I dont miss something of course (I will add some more traps later -as a experiment to see how flat can the response can be since I have some material left ) I also look at the web for an some how "ideal" or closer to ideal frequency response of the room but I cannot find anything besides good waterfalls. Does anybody has any info? I mean an "ideal" or somehow closer to an "ideal" frequency response of a room ? best and many thanks for your time. |
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