Post by etc6849 on Mar 18, 2016 16:00:47 GMT
Questions:
1. What to do next? I think I have squeezed as much performance out of my room/system combination as possible, but I’m always looking for any improvement that will be audible. *
2. What would you improve first if money were no object (it is) and without the design constraints below?
*Design constraints are the 110” projector screen that is already partially covered to convert the 16x9 screen to 2.35. I cannot move to another room and cannot make structural alterations. The large screen and being able to view it unobstructed from the rear seats limits where I can place the main listening position.
Background:
Hi Ethan. I’m an EE who is obsessed with audio fidelity (for better or worse). I drive a ten-year-old vehicle but have a spared no middle-class expense audio system. Over the last several years I’ve tried many iterations of adding more and more bass traps and absorption panels. I’ve even gone so far as to remove and sell some really nice leather high back recliners to replace them with more absorptive clothe recliners.
A few images of my odd shaped room I am stuck with are in the links below. Due to the rooms asymmetrical layout and sloped ceiling, it was an obstacle getting excellent imaging initially (for a long time my ETC/Impulse plots did not look very pretty and imaging was compromised as a result). This lead to a lot of study and trial and error on my part.
I have spent the last 4 years improving every possible thing in my room and system, but I am always looking for any improvement in audible performance. Right now, my system is the best I’ve heard. However, I have only heard systems in hifi shops and audiophile boutique stores, along with several audiophile setups in homes with no acoustic panels I suspect most audiophiles have never heard a system in a treated room like mine (that has lots of absorption).
I had to get to the point I’m at now using common sense and study, and had to learn to ignore most acoustic “professionals” and hi-fi editors who say incorrect statements like: you can’t have great stereo in a home theater, you must have reflective surfaces for a wide sounding stereo image, etc… Let alone the typical audio retailer or "professional" reviewer that claims things like interconnect cables, isolation racks for amps, and even power cables can make a difference! Thanks goodness I'm an electrical engineer and new not to fall for that.
Unfortunately, I only recently discovered your videos, RealTraps and the fact that your posts and articles are some of the few that always make sense (and aren’t full of some audiophile BS). Needless to say, I think learning the hard way has worked for me, but it was very costly in both time and money! If there’s something that can be improved without permanently changing the room (e.g. moving walls, etc…), it’s highly likely I will try it.
System Details:
Playback:
My PC which is in another room for noise reason using Foobar2000 and WASAPI audio driver under Windows 7. Most of my stuff is FLAC files. I use a 60 foot monoprice redmere (uses a chip at each end to optimize transmission bitrates) HDMI cable as my PC is in a room over from my theater. I usually leave my projector off and use a Foobar2000 control app on my phone to control playback. Everything is played back from my PC out my PC’s HDMI connection.
No audiophile CD player or fancy DAC as I’m not sure the difference would be audible. Very interested in your thoughts on this. I also have no pricey cables, just stuff from monoprice or amazon.
Pics and REW File:
REW file for FL and FR, along with images for individual acoustical measurements:
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1J0a4OV_WGLS2lYYl85N1BRNkE&usp=sharing
System Pictures (not right now the sidewalls adjacent to the main listening position do not show 4 additional OC 703 4'x2'x8" panels that I've added, but these were in place for the measurements linked above):
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1J0a4OV_WGLREI3eDVXd0xBM2s&usp=sharing
Room Dimensions:
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1J0a4OV_WGLczBnZmdOMW5MbXM&usp=sharing
Some pics embedded here of the acoustical measurements:
Google drive links above have more measurements, the REW file and even system and room pics.
1. What to do next? I think I have squeezed as much performance out of my room/system combination as possible, but I’m always looking for any improvement that will be audible. *
2. What would you improve first if money were no object (it is) and without the design constraints below?
*Design constraints are the 110” projector screen that is already partially covered to convert the 16x9 screen to 2.35. I cannot move to another room and cannot make structural alterations. The large screen and being able to view it unobstructed from the rear seats limits where I can place the main listening position.
Background:
Hi Ethan. I’m an EE who is obsessed with audio fidelity (for better or worse). I drive a ten-year-old vehicle but have a spared no middle-class expense audio system. Over the last several years I’ve tried many iterations of adding more and more bass traps and absorption panels. I’ve even gone so far as to remove and sell some really nice leather high back recliners to replace them with more absorptive clothe recliners.
A few images of my odd shaped room I am stuck with are in the links below. Due to the rooms asymmetrical layout and sloped ceiling, it was an obstacle getting excellent imaging initially (for a long time my ETC/Impulse plots did not look very pretty and imaging was compromised as a result). This lead to a lot of study and trial and error on my part.
I have spent the last 4 years improving every possible thing in my room and system, but I am always looking for any improvement in audible performance. Right now, my system is the best I’ve heard. However, I have only heard systems in hifi shops and audiophile boutique stores, along with several audiophile setups in homes with no acoustic panels I suspect most audiophiles have never heard a system in a treated room like mine (that has lots of absorption).
I had to get to the point I’m at now using common sense and study, and had to learn to ignore most acoustic “professionals” and hi-fi editors who say incorrect statements like: you can’t have great stereo in a home theater, you must have reflective surfaces for a wide sounding stereo image, etc… Let alone the typical audio retailer or "professional" reviewer that claims things like interconnect cables, isolation racks for amps, and even power cables can make a difference! Thanks goodness I'm an electrical engineer and new not to fall for that.
Unfortunately, I only recently discovered your videos, RealTraps and the fact that your posts and articles are some of the few that always make sense (and aren’t full of some audiophile BS). Needless to say, I think learning the hard way has worked for me, but it was very costly in both time and money! If there’s something that can be improved without permanently changing the room (e.g. moving walls, etc…), it’s highly likely I will try it.
System Details:
- Emotiva XMC-1 processor using Emotiva’s Full Version XMC-1 Dirac (less capable than the PC version) and a calibrated MiniDSP mic. House curve uses Dirac’s default ~5dB downward tilt from low to high.
- Emotiva XPR-1 monoblocks for RCL, and XPR-2 amp for rear speakers.
- Front Left, Front Right, Rear Right and Rear Left: Klipsch Palladium P-39f speakers. I cross these huge speakers over at 80 Hz to lower IMD. This gave me an immediately noticeable improvement (which I attribute to IMD, but need to do formal measurements to verify).
- I’m not sure how much benefit I get if any, but all speakers use factory spikes to go through to the sub floor. However, I have pointed the mid-ranges to ear level and raise the rear feet to do this, so the rear feet spikes are higher than the front ones and are on pads. Guess spikes are useful in that respect.
- Center is Klipsch P-27C speaker is on solid cinder blocks covered with thick cloth. Not fancy, but the blocks don’t resonate and are dirt cheap.
- 12 guage JSC speaker wire.
- Subs are two JL Audio F212’s wired from an XLR wye adapter using one sub output of the XMC-1. I did this because the XMC-1’s Dirac program can’t handle multiple subs as well as Audyssey SubEQ HT (which set phase independently then calibrated subs together).
- 14 “full range” 2’x4’ GIK Acoustics Monster Bass Trap panels offset from wall and sloped ceiling using metal brackets. These are applied as symmetrically as possible. PS: wish I’d have known about and ordered real traps as I can tell from their construction they are made for a life time.
- 8 GIK Acoustics Soffit Bass Traps (17″ x 46.5″ x 17″).
- Front part of room also has four 4’x2’x8” Owens Corning 703 panels wrapped in fabric, and then stacked in front of one another to form a large 8’x2’x16” bass trap. I also added two homemade 4’x2’x8” OC 703 panels on each side wall adjacent to the main listening position (total of four). These four are not shown in the pics, but I will update the pics on my google drive folder (linked below).
- A thick rug on top of wool blend carpet on top of upgraded carpet padding.
- Chairs have low backs so surround speaker mid-range is not obstructed. They are La-Z-Boy designer series with thick velvet like fabric on top of decent foam padding.
- ATS Acoustics 4” 2’ x 2’ foam (bought this before discovering what actual acoustic panels can do). I think it looks nice and helps darken my room for my projector so I kept it. Wish I’d have research more initially and just covered the room in OC 703 4” insulation and covered with a fabric track system.
Playback:
My PC which is in another room for noise reason using Foobar2000 and WASAPI audio driver under Windows 7. Most of my stuff is FLAC files. I use a 60 foot monoprice redmere (uses a chip at each end to optimize transmission bitrates) HDMI cable as my PC is in a room over from my theater. I usually leave my projector off and use a Foobar2000 control app on my phone to control playback. Everything is played back from my PC out my PC’s HDMI connection.
No audiophile CD player or fancy DAC as I’m not sure the difference would be audible. Very interested in your thoughts on this. I also have no pricey cables, just stuff from monoprice or amazon.
Pics and REW File:
REW file for FL and FR, along with images for individual acoustical measurements:
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1J0a4OV_WGLS2lYYl85N1BRNkE&usp=sharing
System Pictures (not right now the sidewalls adjacent to the main listening position do not show 4 additional OC 703 4'x2'x8" panels that I've added, but these were in place for the measurements linked above):
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1J0a4OV_WGLREI3eDVXd0xBM2s&usp=sharing
Room Dimensions:
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1J0a4OV_WGLczBnZmdOMW5MbXM&usp=sharing
Some pics embedded here of the acoustical measurements:
Google drive links above have more measurements, the REW file and even system and room pics.