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Post by pingpangpong on Aug 29, 2018 11:23:30 GMT
Hello ethan and forum members, I have trouble obtaining materials due to where im now living , i am forsed to work with what i can...so have been pushing myself to come up with the best possible solution, im not expecting anything great, but more where i should consecrate my efforts if at all..i have a workshop so no problems with making things....the materials i can get here are 18mm mdf sheets, cheap ceiling tiles, the office type fibre board with painted suface, cheap foam 2" or 3" bed mattresses singles or doubles, and a thin foil and foam roof insulation and car type carpet..like carpet tiles but half the thickness...all types of clothing materials and expanding foam....so the only plans i have really come up with was to use some bed foam sandwitched between ceiling tiles then wrapped in material within a 6" MDF frame on the ceiling ...then bass traps i was wondering if i ground up the foam into finger nail size pieces then poured this into my mdf wedges and slightly compressed it..my thinking behind this being more air gaps between the foam pieces...i have seen cheap beanbags so didnt know if polystyrene balls would do anything giving that they would have movement?....i did speak to a company about shipping me rockwool...but not intrested due to my small quantities....have even thought about layers of second hand cardboard, thats how little i have to work with😧...what would anybody else do given these ingredients!....thanks...
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Post by rock on Aug 29, 2018 12:59:10 GMT
HI pingpangpong, Welcome to the forum,
Can you get rolls or batts of low density fiberglass insulation? Where I live in the Chicagoland area, it's very common and probably is in the entire U.S. Where do you live?
Foam will work if it's "open cell"; if you can blow through it, it's open cell.
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Post by pingpangpong on Aug 29, 2018 14:06:20 GMT
Hey rock im on an island in the Philippines, and am struggling, nothing is easily obtainable.anything not here would need shipping, which comes with possible loss theft or damage, and for now im trying to see how i can cope without uping the hassle factor....lots of that here!...i may in the future when i start my other two rooms need really sort something more professional but for now my hand is forsed....all the big building supplies dont stock anykind of insulation...and the one i did find was not the ridged kind...and they wouldn't deliver anyway.....things are moving at a quick pace here, changes are monthly...but studios, equipment, and resources of that nature are pretty scarce.....
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Post by Hexspa on Aug 29, 2018 16:40:48 GMT
Denim, shred it, done.
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Post by pingpangpong on Aug 29, 2018 21:09:31 GMT
Hexspa, your saying if i get denim and shred it and stuff that in my bass traps? Denim because its dence but air passes through? So anything i could find like that would be better than the diced foam mattresses? Would you advice I slightly compress it?....
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Post by rock on Aug 30, 2018 4:49:37 GMT
Acoustic absorbers work when vibrating air molecules pass through the absorber material and vibrate the fibers or otherwise porous material. The fibers or porous material then vibrate and in doing so convert the acoustic energy into heat energy. So you need a material that can allow air molecules to enter it and not bounce off. That's why you need foam you can blow through. If your absorber thickness is 8 inches or more, lower density is fine so don't compress it, it will however compress to a point under it's own weight.
As Hexspa suggests, denim possesses the right qualities.
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Post by pingpangpong on Aug 30, 2018 7:07:44 GMT
Ok, this is all very helpful thank you. So I'm guessing old towels would be ok?....the second hand clothes market here holds its value well, so think its going to get expensive in denim...towels also...im going to keep hunting for things cheers people.....
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Post by Hexspa on Aug 31, 2018 19:42:38 GMT
Ok, this is all very helpful thank you. So I'm guessing old towels would be ok?....the second hand clothes market here holds its value well, so think its going to get expensive in denim...towels also...im going to keep hunting for things cheers people..... What rock said. There's a commercial product called 'Ultratouch' which uses shredded denim. Towels will probably work, folded sleeping blankets definitely do. Again, like rock said, the issue is material compression.
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Post by rock on Aug 31, 2018 22:26:50 GMT
Let's take a step back and look at this problem from beginning.
First thing I want to point out is that most all of the materials we use are manufactured and tested. In pings case, he want's to essentially manufacture his own material(s). That's fine but we really have no idea how they will perform SO my suggestions is that whatever material ping decides to try to make or process, it probably should be tested.
So what we should be talking about is (drum roll please) HOW TO TEST MATERIALS FOR ACOUSTIC ABSORPTION.
I know we had a thread or two some years ago and it may be in Ethan's book. The basics are you need an empty room and measure if first. (You need software (REW is free) and a measurement mic.) I think it's in the READ THIS FIRST! Then, with a baseline, measure with a sample of your unknown material in the room and compare with the empty room measurements.
The above is just the main idea so I hope we can get some leads to specific details.
My 2 cents, Cheers, Rock
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Post by pingpangpong on Sept 1, 2018 12:50:31 GMT
I did just make i reply but must have done something wrong as its disappeared...so ill start again by saying. Yes all great advice thanks very much people. Yes ROCK i think you've hit the nail on the head, as much as i don't want to do lots of testing, i don't think i have much choice. The room I'm concentrating on at the moment is a small writing room and synth room, both around W6'4xD9xH9 with no door on the joining of the rooms, Ive just finished laying the tiles on the floor this afternoon, this will eventually become a drumroom/guitar cab room i think, then next is the live room W19xD16xH9, which is close to starting treatment, then a mixing room I wasn't intending, around the same size, this is just a concrete slab atm, all rooms are tile floors and concrete block walls with thick render, rugs will be down throughout, apart from the mixing room which I haven't got a design for yet, just lots of pretty pictures in my head...so the plan is to slowly move through the rooms writing mixing and building as i go, so will end up mixing in all the rooms, so looking forward to hear the differnce. So expect me to pester you all some more! I will be reading as much from here as i can, but also going to really try and source some rock wool, I'm looking at all the rooms having there own characteristics and willing to compromise in the live room as i want a mixture of natural room nice sounding acoustics for jamming, but also good for recording with removable partitions, so if I've mentioned anything where it stands out to be a problem for me, feel free to give us a heads up, i am liking the feel of the small writing room as i did a few tunes in there and even though the sound was pretty bad, it helped me concentrate, My last house was basically a studio, and think all the rooms slowed me down and distracted me....anyway thanks again, much appreciated...cheers.
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Post by pingpangpong on Sept 1, 2018 14:09:26 GMT
Another thing i forgot to ask is, what do you here understand about the wooden perforated type treatments? Some have large holes some small, some statted, then i just found binary? I did look through the forum first and didn't see any mention of them. Anybody have experience with this? don't want major complicated, i would read more about it but hoped someone could either stear me away or towards them before I confuse myself anymore. Like this kinda thing in the picture?...https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSlYlCTFysYYXcJ77UMoRXDwNmk2XaQIzhdsYcv-IskhsVeLmNR5itLac-e
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Post by rock on Sept 1, 2018 15:51:14 GMT
That's a Helmholtz resonator. Resonators are tuned to a frequency band so you probably need several tuned to different bands to address all the peaks and nulls in your room. You're right, I heard it can get complicated. We usually use porous absorbers because they are wide band but in your case were materials are scarce, this might be an option to consider. But for RFZ panels, resonant panels may not work so you may still need to use some porous absorbers. www.mh-audio.nl/acalculators.asp#showcalcIf you google Helmholtz you'll bet lots of results.
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Post by Hexspa on Sept 1, 2018 19:30:43 GMT
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Post by pingpangpong on Sept 2, 2018 3:28:08 GMT
Rock, hexspa, thanks for the info, im already frightened off a little by the helmholtz, nothing of anybody constructing these on you tube, but extremely intresting experiments, dosnt look popular as a diy. But another thought ive just had this morning, my cat was attacking my daughters cuddle toy, and the stuffing was comming out, you know the type cheep toys and pillows are made from, white thin tangled. Sorry if rhis has been spoken about already, im going to have a little research now, but thought you would be best as my first port of call...my first feelings are positive to finding that here, so any thoughts about that?? It seams to have the characteristics of rock wool?...does it have some hidden negative effects?...
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Post by rock on Sept 2, 2018 4:56:11 GMT
Yes, polyester is know to work.
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