Post by Michael Lawrence on Nov 6, 2018 20:45:18 GMT
Rootless chord voicings are actually pretty common. You see them extensively in jazz piano and guitar with the assumption that there is a bass note underneath, but sometimes rootless voicings are used as-is for effect. So there's nothing wrong with what you're seeing. It's just a creative choice.
Thank you . So it can be call an A7. They have made EGC#E The progression is for learning the key. So the have I IV V V7 vi in the Key of D. Another chart has the O of 5ths I ii iii IV V vi. All the keys examples from the one I was questioning are I IV V V7 vi. The A7 seemed odd LOL.
Post by Michael Lawrence on Nov 6, 2018 22:05:24 GMT
Yes, you are safe calling that an A dominant 7th chord or A7 for short. Those three notes also constitute a C# diminished triad, but context has a lot to do with it. In the key of D major, C# dim functions as A7 would. Gershwin used this to his advantage frequently. They're recommending that voicing likely due to the relative difficulty of another voicing based on the way your specific instrument is laid out.
Ah yes it is hard to fret the G up the neck. Unless I stretch my pinky finger longer. And yes it comes up as C# here purplebanjo.com/chord-builder. When I am learning I don't need the confusion. I think I will try voicing this on the piano for more clarity.
It's also an Em6/A. E-G-C#-E. For 6th chords, the 5th is usually dropped. Guitar has this same issue. When I went to MI, they told me to worry about what's on the left and the bass player worries about what's on the right. Obviously, that's for slash chords like this and not polychords which are worried about by pianists
All told, it makes a rootless A7 like you guys have been discussing. It's just an arrangement issue, and I guess a performance one too due to the physical limitations you guys are also talking about. This can sometimes also crop up when the bass is playing some kind of melody or pedal; counterpoint.
You can call it Em6 or C#dim but, ultimately, every seventh chord has four triads you can play on each chord tone. For A7, it's Amaj, C#dim, Em6, and G6 in the case of A9. It all comes down to the power the bass range has that colors everything above it. It also gives freedom to treble instruments to add in colors like 9ths, 11ths & 13ths.
So obviously I have some work to do recognizing the terminology and diversity / similarities of the harmonic degrees of these note groups. I am trying to look at the fret board in terms of degrees. Eventually I should see the familiarity of these chords. The circle of 5ths really helps. Aside from Major chords which sound familiar as we listen to them so often, the minors draw you slowly into investigating more complex sounds as they seem deeper. That's what I feel at this stage. LOL
Post by Michael Lawrence on Nov 8, 2018 0:55:31 GMT
A piano keyboard is a big help here because it removes the "encoding layer" of the fretboard layout, and allows you to directly see how the notes relate to each other. Even if you aren't a gifted pianist, a little plunking will go a long way.
Piano is great but studying 'away from the table' is important too. In other words, learn to spell chords both intervalically, also known as chord formulas, and with the note names. Intervallic structure has two levels: the larger intervals themselves and how many 'whole steps and half steps make them up'.
For instance: Cmaj. You 'spell' it 'C-E-G'. Intervallically, that's a Root, Major 3 third, and Perfect Fifth. A tonic, or root, is no half steps. A major third is four half steps. A perfect fifth is seven half steps, etc. It's also good to know the compound value of the intervals like: 'a perfect fifth is a major third plus a minor third'.
Anyway, once you know the names of most or all of the thirds and fifths of any note, the rest is pretty easy. Just remember that the interval number and note name need to match up. I've seen several instances of where trusted authorities use the incorrect enharmonic spelling for something. Famously, Joe Satriani said he likes the key of Cb major because it has an 'E lydian' thing. Well, Joe, no it doesn't. It has an Fb Lydian thing. C-D-E-F; 1-2-3-4. Doesn't matter if you put a flat, or two, in front or not.
Remember: letters and numbers. If I can give you a homework assignment, find the perfect fifth of every note. That's how I started. Bonus points if you can begin to train your ear to hear that interval, if you haven't. From there, you can start filling in the diatonic triads for all 12 keys, which, according to Victor Wooten are actually 30 keys including the relative minor and enharmonic variants. That'll give you the various thirds and diminished fifths. After that, do the scales which will fill in your seconds, fourths, sixths & sevenths. But ya, start with knowing your fifths. After you do these things, you'll be flipping voices around like middle fingers at a New York cabbie convention.
Very nice thanks. I have begun to Look at all the major scales . Pretty much can finger all the major and minor chords on the banjo A C D F G make the triads in my head make minors from a diminished 3rd . I think I did some homework by accident. I am trying to work the E and B major chords into my warm-up chord progressions. So after you described the C# A7 question I went on to construct F# A B and E. This group by practicle application sounded very nice in the center of the fret board plus they are located close together. I then had no Idea what key that was or what exactly the notes were. Someone mentioned something simplistic and it sort of had a demystifying effect. That was that within a group of three keys or 6, if you use the minor, which are beside each other on the circle of 5ths , you are basically working with 7 notes. So I wrote out all the notes from those 4 keys constructed the 1 3 5 chords then looked at all the 12 notes. A couple of duplications but yes there were 7 notes. You can lose me pretty fast as I can see your depth of interval and chord knowledge from your post. I then assemble the notes together and saw 4 sharps. I determined that that was likely the key of E. So when I did a bit of a chord progressions it was pretty much the key of E. It takes a while to practice every day to actually voice the chords clearly and smoothly. Just brushing them. I am also trying to pick them in a small 4/4 roll pattern and also beginning to emphasize the tonic note. Thus I will pay more attention to what you instructed regarding the particular interval sounds of 1 3 5.
Really thank you for stepping me up. The other thing that made looking at interval patterns more interesting is the term pathways. Trying to find different pathways down the neck for interval runs. Obviously we do this with full chords but as you have stated it is better to look at the chord as a group of individual intervals. The goals is to be able to find the notes of the chord by knowing the intervals in surrounding locations on the fret board.
I also have a guitar, A seagull from Long and McQuade. A used one but very nice. So here I cannot refer to chord charts. I have to pick the guitar up once in a while and find the intervals and scales. This is not the easiest at the moment but is the most beneficial. Again as per your instruction once you can understand the key structure you can assemble chords without reference. It really helps to memorize the 0 of 5ths. I am working on the beads have The Father Charles part down. Took a while so I have to refer to it in my mind every day so I don't have re learn it LOL. Although some famous artist make mega hits with 4 or 5 chords LOL. Interesting what can be done with 12 notes. I actually was using was using F#m instead of F#. I think I can put a G#m in there but have not memorized the Gm chords sufficiently to smoothly transition to them. So need to work on Gm Fm Dm even though I know the form is the same I want them to be ingrained and second nature. I can then add a seventh or a ninth if I'm feeling lucky LOL
The chords F#, A, B & E, as majors, are from at least two keys; F# is the one that's the odd man out. F# as a minor would fit. What I'm getting from your post is that you aren't aware of a concept called 'modal interchange'. Let me give you a brief example:
If you're in E major, and you're studying your cycle of 5ths, you'll know that B is a perfect fifth above E (one place clockwise) and A is a perfect fourth above E (one place counter-clockwise. F# is two places clockwise so, naturally, it wants to fall back through B and, finally, at E. There's just one problem.
Every chord in a given key isn't just major; I think you know that.
For diatonic keys, the major pattern is: M m m M M m o.
The minor pattern is: m o M m m M M
Of course, for minor, the third, sixth & seventh degrees are one half-step lower than the parallel major intervals. What this allows you to do is, say, lay the minor pattern on top of the major and pick whichever chords you like. Start both scales on E and see what you get. One thing you can do with this arrangement of scales is play a diminished triad for the II in a major II-V-I progression. That's not really as common as playing a D-E in E major for a faux backdoor cadence. The point is you can.
You can even take it another step further and derive chords from other parallel keys. Build your harmony from C# dorian and, boom, now you can have your E-F#-A-B chord progression. You'll even get two dominant chords: F#7 and B7. Once again, using modal interchange, you can end up with something like:
Yes I understand that theoretically . I think when I went back and checked it was F#m that fit not F# .Yes I understand a bit about the modes. Particularly for guitar players who can incorporate them into the Pentatonic runs. I was studying the circle of 5ths last night and found a few tricks to read it . Like the next clockwise 5th is the seventh of the scale and the next b is 4 steps or five depending on how you count forward or backwards. The minors are a third of the majors. I do know that minor scales are built from the 6th degree and minor chords from a diminished 3rd. I think the way to get runs from the modes is to find scale degrees that match the Major scale you are trying to match and then picking them out and building runs from there. That is a bit advanced for me practically but nice to know. People probably do it without knowing it when improvising and finding something they like. That is what you described by taking Carlos Santana's favorite mode, Dorian, That was a validating example of what I read a while back. I think it will be useful for Melodic style Banjo. We saw the guitarist for Alison Krause do simple melodic passages and rolls up the neck from the lowest frets to the nut. Of course he is a master acoustic player but made it look simple. Also studied identifying key signatures by the position of sharps and flats on the stave One note up for sharps and on the note for flats. Identifying key changes in a piece and being able to determine, as a general rule the key from the first and last notes or chords. I like what you describe as that gives full chord pathways. Using modes that way like great guitar players who add depth and complexity. So much to try and apply :-) I know Dolly Pardon Likes Music A lot. I don't particularly like my Aunts lasagna. I believe there is a trick for the modes where you move one note forward in the formula to obtain all the mode formulas but have not gone over in writing. You probably have those formulas as second nature. Every turn there is something new.
Here's the best chart I've seen to understand how major, minor, perfect, augmented & diminished intervals are related:
Only Unisons, fourths, fifths & octaves can be perfect. The other four intervals are either major or minor. All intervals can be augmented or diminished.
If you have a major seventh (M7) and a parallel minor mode/accidental lowers it then it becomes minor (m7). If you have a minor seventh and a parallel scale/accidental lowers it yet again then it's diminished (d7). However, if you have a perfect fifth (P5) and it's lowered by a parallel mode/accidental then it's immediately diminished (d5).
Of course, the various scales and chords have all of these intervals in different combinations naturally. For instance, the Diminished Scale has 8 notes: 1-2-b3-4-b5-b6-d7-7. You can also spell it in another enharmonic variation which, while functionally useful, is technically incorrect: 1-2-b3-4-b5-#5-6-7. Scales like this are tricky because our entire nomenclature is based around the regular diatonic (7-note) system. I've never seen any intervals pushed beyond diminished or augmented; double-sharp and double-flat don't change that.
For what it's worth, I've never heard an interval and said, "Oh, wow, a diminished seventh." The reason for this is that my ear isn't that developed, in part, because I rarely use extended harmony. I can listen to music and pick out some vanilla diatonic notes, again, because that's what I use and practice daily. The point I'm making here is that it's very easy to get deep into theory and have no ear to back it up. The danger is that you play like a Jazz robot and shoot diarrhea out of your horn, all the while thinking you're hip. Of course, it's good to know this stuff but don't fool yourself; if you can't hear it then you really can't play it and people will notice.