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Post by tiggerdyret on Jun 25, 2019 11:07:37 GMT
I’m about to mix my debut album and I’m considering whether or not I need a studio upgrade. So far I’ve only mixed on headphones, but I did notice that I had trouble discerning the low frequencies on my trusty Sennheiser HD540. I know monitors is the better option, but I don’t think my room would be treated well enough for monitors to make sense. Room specs are linked later in this post. I also only listen to headphones myself, so I’m not sure how confident I am with monitors. I basically plan on putting about 1500 USD (closer to 1.000 USD, because of different taxations and prices in Denmark) into the album, but that includes everything from copyright fees, marketing and getting the album on streaming services to gear and tools needed. Right now I have about 380 USD that I’m willing to spend on gear, if the upgrade is worth it, but mind you I am piss poor, so every dollar counts, and I know I’m going to put every cent I have into other stages of this release, so 200 USD is probably a better estimate right now considering my budget. My current setup consists of:
Interface: RME Babyface Pro.
Headphones: Sennheiser HD540 (My main listening device. I know them in and out), Sennheiser HD650 (borrowed), Direct Sound EX29-Plus and some cheap pods.
Acoustic panels: 6 60cmX150cm rigid fiberglass absorber panels made with you guys' specifications. I still have materials for 2-3 more panels, if needed.
Speaker and power amp: I have a decent PA system, which I use for reference from time to time.
Pre-amp: An old Sony E80ES, that I also use as headphone amp.
System and DAW: Desktop PC running Reaper. As I see it, I have a few options: 1. Save the money and mix on headphones and hire a pro to look at the mix in later stages, give notes and maybe rent a studio and so we can have a look at it together. (I have a friend in mind for this, but he is very skilled and expensive). 2. Look into analyzer plugins and plugins that fake speakers and whatever is available to alleviate the limitations of my headphones. 3. Treat my room as best as possible with the materials I’ve got and buy a cheap pair of portable bluetooth monitors, so I can move them around my apartment and check how they work in different locations.
Edit: Added "absorber" to the panel description. Edit2: I also want to add that I'm taking a couple months off just to mix, so whatever room I choose will be a dedicated mixing room in that time frame, so it don't have to be pretty and I wouldn't mind having panels or whatever cover up doors and widnows or stand in the middle of the room or whatever is needed for a better mixing setup.
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Post by rock on Jun 26, 2019 3:45:56 GMT
Hi tigger,
If I boil down what I understand you're asking I come up with 2 paths for the best approach to mix your album. 1. Study acoustics, mix room design, build, add treatment, test, make adjustments to treatment, test, repeat etc. 2. Shop around for a good recording studio and mix engineer and hire the best you can afford.
In the end, hiring pros may end up being the best, least expensive, quickest and easiest for you. You'll probably spend more than $1500 USD either way. You could always do it yourself with your cans and what you have right now, which would be the least expensive. In fact, you probably SHOULD mix your album with cans right now. Bring your mixes to play in other rooms with good systems and see how they translate. If nothing else, they will be a good reference for a mix engineer if you do eventually hire one.
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Post by tiggerdyret on Jun 26, 2019 8:27:48 GMT
Thanks for your input rock. I'll just keep mixing on my headphones and stick to the original plan of spending my budget on an engineer to help me out and teach me a few tricks along the way, when my mix is mostly done. Even though I am a Hi-fi nerd myself I don't really care that much about how my music plays on a stereo. Even considering people who care about good sound quality, how many actually listens intently on stereos and not just as background volume? Not a lot. I'm okay with a couple of engineers frowning at my work I'd just by happy if they were listening to it in the first place
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Post by Hexspa on May 3, 2020 21:41:33 GMT
Interface: RME Babyface Pro.
How u like it?
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Post by rock on May 4, 2020 0:46:21 GMT
Hey tigger,
Here's a guy who is focused on recording and mix techniques
graham@therecordingrevolution.com
He's got a course you can buy but has an email list and youtubes too. So I suggest you see what he has to offer. Some of what he teaches you probably know, some may be new to you and some you may disagree with but check it out, you'll probably get something out of it.
I'll share one tip that I got from him: Use reference tracks. When mixing a specific tune, select a well mixed and produced tune in the same genre, instrumentation, tempo and feel that sounds great anywhere you listen to it. Record a copy on a stereo track in your DAW. As you mix, refer to your reference track for levels, EQ and FX etc. The idea is if the ref. track is mixed in a good sounding studio and you follow the pattern, your mix should/could have good translation too...It's worth a try...
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Post by Hexspa on May 4, 2020 8:19:04 GMT
It's a premium plugin but MCompare by MeldaProduction is what I use. Makes referencing very easy with auto level control and looping. Not an affiliate but it's on sale as of today and, if you want/need a reference plugin, $32 is worth it imo.
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Post by tiggerdyret on May 4, 2020 10:38:29 GMT
Interface: RME Babyface Pro.
How u like it? I love it. The latency is crazy low, so I can run almost any fx chain for vocals directly from Reaper without even using the 0 latency fx from total mix. I can also run guitar DI signal into the interface and route it to my re-amp, into the guitar pedals and amp and record the cab with a mic or torpedo cab sim, and then have an fx chain on the track all in real time without any noticeable latency. I love having the option to control the gain and level through software, so I can adjust everything remotely when I'm at my TV or when I had an isolation both. It is compact and portable and can run 12 inputs and outputs with a 8-channel adat preamp.
I also use the extended routing features to run my pc audio output into Reaper and into the interface outputs making me able to run Sonarworks on both speakers and headphones at the same time. All in all it's one of the best studio investments I've made and I often find new ways to utilize all of it's features.
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Post by tiggerdyret on May 4, 2020 10:55:50 GMT
Hey tigger, Here's a guy who is focused on recording and mix techniques graham@therecordingrevolution.com He's got a course you can buy but has an email list and youtubes too. So I suggest you see what he has to offer. Some of what he teaches you probably know, some may be new to you and some you may disagree with but check it out, you'll probably get something out of it. I'll share one tip that I got from him: Use reference tracks. When mixing a specific tune, select a well mixed and produced tune in the same genre, instrumentation, tempo and feel that sounds great anywhere you listen to it. Record a copy on a stereo track in your DAW. As you mix, refer to your reference track for levels, EQ and FX etc. The idea is if the ref. track is mixed in a good sounding studio and you follow the pattern, your mix should/could have good translation too...It's worth a try... This thread is kinda old, but actually pretty relevant, since I just finished treating the room with a pair of T7V's. I do know of Graham and I've used a lot of his tips in the first couple of years of mixing, but I feel like I'm at a level above what he is teaching at this point. He is a great teacher for beginners, but he has a very simplistic approach to mixing and I honestly think his mixing is a bit boring. I'm actually so immensely skilled now, that I can almost hear the difference, when Dave Pensado is A/B'ing a mixing trick
If you want to look into some great tutorials I highly recommend groove3. That is just an unending treasure trove of high quality knowledge on everything music and production related... Hell even music business. I do agree however that referencing is important - especially with a new system or when you are less confident in your abilities. I still feel like I'm at a level where I need to rely on it... even in earlier stages like recording and producing, but of course mixing!
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Post by Hexspa on May 4, 2020 20:04:21 GMT
Hexspa has some pretty good tutorials as well; or so I've heard.
But how is that Babyface Pro?
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Post by tiggerdyret on May 5, 2020 8:14:28 GMT
Hexspa has some pretty good tutorials as well; or so I've heard. But how is that Babyface Pro? I'll check it out. I did reply about the babyface in the post above, but I'll post it again I love it. The latency is crazy low, so I can run almost any fx chain for vocals directly from Reaper without even using the 0 latency fx from total mix. I can also run guitar DI signal into the interface and route it to my re-amp, into the guitar pedals and amp and record the cab with a mic or torpedo cab sim, and then have an fx chain on the track all in real time without any noticeable latency. I love having the option to control the gain and level through software, so I can adjust everything remotely when I'm at my TV or when I had an isolation both. It is compact and portable and can run 12 inputs and outputs with a 8-channel adat preamp. I also use the extended routing features to run my pc audio output into Reaper and into the interface outputs making me able to run Sonarworks on both speakers and headphones at the same time. All in all it's one of the best studio investments I've made and I often find new ways to utilize all of it's features.
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Post by Hexspa on May 5, 2020 18:43:26 GMT
My bad, I was blinded by the emojis.
Do you make videos? I'd like to see a a video of your setup. Part of me wants the BFP-FS but I need a separate mono monitor out for my mixcube. That makes me think I either need a mixer or an ADAT-connected unit. Which ADAT pre are you using? I'll probably either do what you're doing or go with the UC. The UFX+ or whatever is probably overkill - not to mention expensive even though I'm interested in MADI and possibly hooking up some Burl some time in the next decade.
My MOTU Ultralite mk3 is hanging in there but I get audio drop outs when my computer backs up but also randomly maybe once a week. It's 10 years old and, while I can loopback Windows audio via physical S/PDIF, I can't help but feel that an RME would be a worthwhile upgrade.
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Post by tiggerdyret on May 6, 2020 6:47:16 GMT
There is not much to film right now I just use the Babyface with an old Behringer Ultragain 8000 that I bought used for next to nothing. I've never had any trouble with the Ultragain and the quality is actually pretty decent (I've never made a comparison, but I've never been bothered by the quality), so it should be more than enough for a mixcube.
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Post by Hexspa on May 6, 2020 22:40:06 GMT
I was just interested in your guitar routing. Good to know the ADAT is working out. A while ago, I listened to a preamp shootout from SoS - I think it was SoS - and the Behringer sounded good. I think it was the 8200.
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Post by tiggerdyret on May 9, 2020 7:41:35 GMT
I was just interested in your guitar routing. Good to know the ADAT is working out. A while ago, I listened to a preamp shootout from SoS - I think it was SoS - and the Behringer sounded good. I think it was the 8200. Sure, that setup is fairly complicated. I don't have it set up right at this moment, but I will put it together this weekend and make a quick video for you.
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Post by Hexspa on May 9, 2020 22:00:42 GMT
Sweet. Looking forward
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