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Post by mehmethan on Jun 16, 2020 16:50:05 GMT
Hi,
I'm comparing my stereo 44.1 khz-24 bit renders from 2 different Daws with all same settings inside daw projects. When I make null test between 2 renders, phase difference between renders is around -60 db which is pretty low.I also can't hear any difference in my listening tests at different SPLs or on different listening enviroments like headphones, studio monitors. How can I make sure that other people also can't hear any difference,too? Is there any definiton or standart for "inaudible" while comparing 2 different sounds ?
Regards
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Post by rock on Jun 16, 2020 18:29:10 GMT
In general, not everyone hears exactly the same so you can only use generalities and then go a little farther or better if you want to make sure you're going to satisfy all listeners. Without doing any checking for verification of current standards, when I was first learning about audio, a difference of 60dB was generally considered an acceptable signal to noise ratio for 70's HiFi and Stereo systems. Modern equipment can far exceed S/N of 60dB but as far a human hearing is concerned, I might imagine little has changed. So yeah, that means that a signal 60dB louder than the system noise or another signal would render the noise or other signal "inaudible". But the above will be different depending on the actual content of the two signals. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_maskingAs usual, maybe someone with more factual or up to date info can chime in. |
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 16, 2020 23:54:35 GMT
-60dB? While the music is playing? There's actually a sure-fire way to know if anyone can hear that.
If they're human, they can't hear it. I'm reading about this in Ethan's book now. The only time you'll hear it is perhaps during a quiet passage which has an instrument that doesn't contain the same frequencies as the noise; 60Hz hum during a piccolo solo, for instance.
So long as the signal is present and not lower than 20dB below the noise floor and the sound isn't totally masked by another sound, some people might hear it - some more easily than others. Obviously, the quieter or more masked, the less likely anyone will.
I thought the whole 'do daws sound different' debate has been settled. One things's for sure, I've never listened to the Billboard Hot 100 and said, "This fool totally mixed this in Logic and THAT'S why he's down this week."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 8:55:54 GMT
One things's for sure, I've never listened to the Billboard Hot 100 and said, "This fool totally mixed this in Logic and THAT'S why he's down this week." Hahah.. I think even in reality -10db/15db starts to be actually kinda to hard to hear. |
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 17, 2020 11:33:15 GMT
I, for one, need to worry less about the elusive and technical 1% and focus more on the 99% which is playing music and writing.
When I hear something new, I'll give it all of 5-20 seconds before deciding whether I like it. Again, it's never because of what kind of EQ they used or anything else of that magnitude. It's: is it strong? Is it melodic? Does it make me physically respond at all?
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Post by mehmethan on Jun 17, 2020 11:48:29 GMT
Hi,Thanks for your replies. I think I need to explain the situation more clearly.
This is all about a scientific research at my univercity about daws, plugins, soundcards, preamps,cables, etc.. I mean too many of those.
We will compare the sound difference between sources with null tests and try to find the differences and comment if the difference is hearable or not. There will be a lot of test files. We already started testing 12 different daws with same conditions.
When comparing, there are perfectly nulled sources.-inf dB phase difference. So there is no need to make hearing tests with those ones.
there are some null tests around lets say -60 db phase difference. we want to make sure that people can hear or can't hear this difference in their listenig envoriments before we publish our work. So when comparing 2 digital recordings I need to find a definiton for "inaudible" if possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 12:34:50 GMT
mehmethan That sounds pretty interesting project.
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Post by rock on Jun 17, 2020 21:22:47 GMT
If the scope of your study allows, you might want to include actual hearing tests to determine the threshold of audibility of the various comparisons you are testing rather than relying on some de-facto standard.
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 17, 2020 21:35:15 GMT
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