brak
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Post by brak on Nov 3, 2020 16:17:50 GMT
Hey @pasim, I appreciate your willingness to help. Not only did I notice from your profile pic that you play drums, but it looks like you have a similar positioning setup - as both of us have our backs a few inches from a wall and window. So I wanted to ask you about acoustic treatments for drums. Here is a layout of the room: To explain what it shows: I have a 9" inch twin size mattress mounted on the wall long-ways flush with the ceiling. So there is a 44" gap from the floor to the bottom of the shelf that holds the mattress up. Fortunately the gap is high enough so that my ride cymbal clears it with no issues. To spare you from having to read the length of my original thread: This room also has to function as a bedroom from time to time - so the motivation for mounting the mattress isn't because of the amazing acoustic properties or to save a few dollars - but prevent having to drag the mattress through the house, and to make the switch from studio to bedroom as easy as possible. So I am now contemplating what I should have around the kit. I noticed that you have no acoustic treatment behind you in your picture (in fact it looks like the blinds on the window would be quite reflective) - which motivated me to tag you. What kind of treatment(s) are you using yourself? I was (before seeing your picture) thinking of acoustic panels on the northern wall (the one behind the drums), on the ceiling above the drums, and maybe even on the southern wall in front of the drums. But after seeing your picture this has all been called into question.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2020 9:40:12 GMT
You mean my profile picture here? The wall was covered with some acoustic wall panels, can't remember the name, I just put em there when I did know nothing about acoustics. And that picture, the room was on tearing down stage.
Your room is really small, mine is little bigger(still very small W10ft, H8.5ft, L16.4ft)
You should build as thick as possible panels around your drums, I suggest 10-12inches. Is it possible to make the drums face short wall? Or even so that you almost sit in the corner and the drums face out to the room?
Is your priority, to play drums in that room?
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brak
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 4, 2020 20:21:49 GMT
Ah @pasim, the picture was deceiving then. lol
The position/orientation of the drums is locked in place, as the room will be used for both tracking and rehearsing. Having my back to the other musicians would be....... I don't even know the word to describe it, as I am not the drummer from Stryper. I am already in a corner, but I can't rotate it as it would be blocking the HVAC register. And the other side of the room isn't via due to it being above the bed (pillow actually) of the room below. So I need to make due with where it is at.
I use a lot of internal dampening to significantly decrease the volume of the drums themselves - puts them at an acoustic guitar level in terms of volume.
Would putting some foam on the ceiling above the drums be helpful?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2020 19:22:49 GMT
Wow - really damping the drums if theyre so quiet! I like to play drums "quietly"(drums quiet, is basically quite loud already) as well, the hard part is to get the punch while playing softer. That's when you know the drummer is good.
Foam works well on higher frequencies. I would put absorption around the drums, as thick as you can go, don't skimp on this if you don't wanna be dissapointed. Hanging the foam from the ceiling would be better. Foam is not the most cost effective way to go, but it works. But with only treatment being thin foam, no good.
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brak
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 5, 2020 23:46:40 GMT
@pasim thanks for the response. Yeah, super dampened. Volume levels went basically from "next door neighbors an arce away can hear them" to "people on the floor below me sometimes don't even notice them". I am a fan of that 70's "drums sound like a cardboard box" type tone, and was never a fan of the 80's "toms sound like cannons" tone. I like the strong attack, fast decay type sound (I do a lot of prog metal, so fast articulation is really important - need those clicky kicks!) I know what I have just said might make many drummers want to burn me at the stake for uttering such heretical views.... but I like what I like. I am currently concerned with the upper frequencies especially from the cymbals, and especially from the ceiling. I have a bunch of foam already lying around that I can use, so I'm hoping to use it. I currently have a 37x75" piece of 2" foam that I am thinking about attaching to the ceiling. I know that is a LOT thinner than 10-12" you suggested - so maybe it would be pointless. Let me ask you this very specific question: First let me give you an idea of the vertical placement of my drums, my snare and floor tom are basically at the same level as my throne. The hihat and ride is at about elbow level, rack toms about bicep level, and crash/splash/china cymbals at shoulder level. (Yes, very compact set-up) The bottom part of the wall behind me (from the top of the throne to the floor).... would it be a good allocation of foam to put some there, or would other locations have priority? Also, the bottom part of the wall next to the ride cymbal (underneath the mattress) would it be a good allocation of foam to put some there?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2020 10:40:05 GMT
What kind of 2" foam is it? Convoluted or just even sheet? Latter being better. I have 2" foam sheets now hanging from the ceiling, but they're hanging 8inch from the ceiling.
Don't you want to build those thick absorptive panels? They definitely do better. I have in my current(temporary) space even some really thick stuff with the foam.
The risk is that you just over dampen the highs,(with only 2") and are left with really uncomfortable modal dominated room. Making the real problems in the room, even more apparent.
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brak
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 11, 2020 1:12:28 GMT
What kind of 2" foam is it? Convoluted or just even sheet? Latter being better. I have 2" foam sheets now hanging from the ceiling, but they're hanging 8inch from the ceiling. Its wavy/hilly/valey-y foam, not flat. At the peaks its 2", at the troughs its 1". Don't you want to build those thick absorptive panels? They definitely do better. I have in my current(temporary) space even some really thick stuff with the foam. I would prefer to avoid building them if possible. The risk is that you just over dampen the highs,(with only 2") and are left with really uncomfortable modal dominated room. Making the real problems in the room, even more apparent. Oh, so over damping/absorbing can be a bad thing? Here I was thinking if I made the room look like a padded cell it would be perfect! lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 15:45:21 GMT
Yeah, overdamping at certain frequencies that are not the problem.. I think your room is anyways too small to achieve even balance. But dont make it even worse by adding only thin foam. That wavy stuff is worse than if it was plain 2" sheet.
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brak
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 15, 2020 18:59:55 GMT
Yeah, overdamping at certain frequencies that are not the problem.. I think your room is anyways too small to achieve even balance. But dont make it even worse by adding only thin foam. That wavy stuff is worse than if it was plain 2" sheet. That sucks..... as I already have it and don't want to just throw it away. Is there any place it could be put that would be of any benefit? One thing I plan on doing is doing a "bare naked" test recording of the drums as they are. Since I have gone the weird-route of damping the drums until the cows came home, maybe a lot of typical acoustic issues would be moot or (hopefully not) new one crop up. I am even thinking of maybe using piezos to mic the drums. I remember reading that the Cure did that on one of their albums. Does this forum allow for mp3s to be attached so you all can hear my test recordings?
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Post by rock on Nov 15, 2020 21:34:44 GMT
Post mp3's as attachments? I don't know, try it! I'd bet it'll work.
If you want to use foam that you already have, maybe you can use it later to kill any flutter echoes if you have any after you're finished treating the room for the mix position.
In other words, you might find you have some flutter echoes at spots that you'll be using for recording other than at the mix position.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2020 20:10:21 GMT
Yup. They're perfect for killing flutter echoes! And flutter echoes makes everything sound tinny and really fatiguing.
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