brak
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 10, 2020 17:12:04 GMT
Ok..... I am getting quite bewildered....
After the passing of EVH, I have been seeing a lot of posts of various studio pics of them back in the day.
I can't help but notice the mix rooms completely violate the room geometry ideas that we have been discussing. I have also been seeing videos on youtube by different producers/mixers where they also are violating the "orthodoxy" - for example Glen from Specter Sound, and Warren from Produce Like a Pro.
So how is it that I see many setups get away with this. For example, where they are positioned short-way in a rectangle (the monitors are against the front wall, the back wall is just a few feet away, but the side walls are quite a distance away).
What is going on exactly?
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Post by rock on Nov 10, 2020 23:20:43 GMT
I saw a "Nova" episode on PBS about "Why Bridges Fall Down" the lead story was about this bridge in Italy: www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/26/what-caused-the-genoa-morandi-bridge-collapse-and-the-end-of-an-italian-national-mythThe designer was considered a genius or something... until this bridge failed. Bottom line it could have been fine but things went wrong because he did some unconventional stuff. So I suppose you could mix some great records in a studio that goes against the fundamentals Ethan has spelled out here. I don't know much (or anything really except I did build a couple studios years decades ago that didn't work out as good as they might have if I knew then what I know now) about that so I'm sorry, I'm not much help but it's my best guess that if you do follow and employ these fundamentals we generally offer here, it will probably get you farther and faster along to good mixes than otherwise. my 2 cents. But having said that, I sure would like to know the answer to your question too! |
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brak
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 10, 2020 23:41:58 GMT
rock Oh, I do plan on integrating the tips/suggestions you guy have been sharing, and what I have read in the other posts on this forum. I was just watching/listening to a bit of EVH stuff the past few days (they are planning some sort of "from the vault" release type thing). I was watching a video from Produce Like A Pro where he was testing out these auto-calibrating monitors. The monitors basically runs a REW type program and then applies filters to the monitors to level things out. In that video Warren was complaining about the acoustics in that mixing room and how he has to compensate when mixing. So it sounds like he knows how crappy to make it sound in the room so that it sounds great outside of the room. So that could explain this phenomenon. lol I guess its like when a string breaks on a guitar with a Floyd Rose, you can ride the trem bar to lower it back to pitch, or you play things a fret or two lower than you should, due to everything going sharp. If a person has the skills to pull it off, it can be done successfully. Warren clearly has those skills in the mixing room. So just like you don't want to start playing a guitar with a broken string, you don't want to start off with a compromised environment if you can easily avoid it being that way. I was just wondering if there was something specially they were doing/using to compensate successfully for their heretical actions. I sent a message to both Warren and Glen about this - hopefully they will respond. It could very well just be camera angles.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 15:42:42 GMT
They are usually bigger than you might think. That "backwall few ft away" might be further than you think. Usually these engineered spaces are not domestic sizes. Especially in older control rooms, that facing the long wall was quite common. But remember, the room width in those is way bigger than most have their room lenghts.
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Post by rock on Nov 11, 2020 18:23:59 GMT
Yeah, Pasim is probably right about all that. If you dig down, you might be be able to find floor plans of the control rooms of which you have seen pictures. If you just google images of control room or studio plans etc., you'll see lots of plans set up "down the length".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 13:49:40 GMT
And you have to realize those spaces are even bigger than you see, the treatment takes almost 50% of floor space. 30% usually minimum. + Add to that fact that the outer shell is even BIGGER than the inside shell, "sound proofed". After that you lose the 30-50% floor space.
No offense, but you clearly dont have an idea what goes to building a real control/mixing room.
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brak
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 15, 2020 18:44:39 GMT
They are usually bigger than you might think. That "backwall few ft away" might be further than you think. Yeah, Pasim is probably right about all that. Yeah, Hence me saying maybe its a camera angle issue - that the photos give a false impression of dimension. If you just google images of control room or studio plans etc., you'll see lots of plans set up "down the length". Correct, I have seen tons of images and floor plans that are orthodox in these terms..... I'm just wondering about how there heretics are pulling it off. And you have to realize those spaces are even bigger than you see, the treatment takes almost 50% of floor space. 30% usually minimum. + Add to that fact that the outer shell is even BIGGER than the inside shell, "sound proofed". After that you lose the 30-50% floor space. WHOA...... MIND...... BLOWN! I didn't even think of that. That the walls I am seeing are actually "false walls" with a bunch of treatment behind them. Now I'm beginning to question all reality now! Now I am singing lines from the Talking Heads...... "same as it ever was". No offense, but you clearly dont have an idea what goes to building a real control/mixing room. Dude... no offense taken. Fortunate in my educational history I was in institutions that didn't tolerate snowflake-ism. So please, always feel free to call out any stupidity and/or ignorance you might sense. No kid gloves please.  But yeah..... I fully realize that I barely know enough to be dangerous at this point. And I greatly appreciate all of you all's patience as I try to wrap my head around these things. |
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Post by rock on Nov 15, 2020 19:14:59 GMT
To put things in perspective, and this is my personal opinion and not necessarily that of Ethan or any other member, but this being a DIY forum, I consider it provides, practical down to earth, tested practices, that most people can afford to implement on their own. I don't think we're trying to build state of the art, cutting edge studios, were just trying to improve the rooms we have already.
I'm not saying we can't try new things but in general, I'm mostly happy to stick with the basics basically because that's all I know, so I can't give advice beyond that...But I'm still learning too. Now remember, that's just me, others here are much more knowledgeable. Check out other studio building forums too and since you're interested in other specific studios, I'd suggest visiting a few if you can and/or contacting the specific designers. There are also some good books on the subject that go way beyond what we talk about here so I encourage you to check them out too.
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