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Post by Hexspa on May 11, 2017 1:27:02 GMT
So today I went shopping for vape liquid and other stuff.
I found vinyl drywall bead out of which I'll probably be making any future panels.
I moved my desk a little to the left and set my speakers in a triangle aiming to 16" behind my head. We're at about 65" point-to-point, if anyone is interested.
Last night I moved my desk forward about 1.3' to avoid the null I was initially experiencing.
Tomorrow, or the next, I'll perform more measurements to see:
1. Whether the seran wrap on these panels is making any difference
2. The difference (in this room) between 4" and 8" rigid
3. Whether I made the right choice moving my desk up
4. Whether I need to move my speakers to a better location (had to move them around because of the desk)
After I dial that info in I'll either begin hanging my existing rigid to create an RFZ or I'll wait on that and immediately begin to build fluffy to do more comparison testing.
-m
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Post by Hexspa on May 11, 2017 22:27:13 GMT
Today I did what I said yesterday: 1. Seran Wrap On and Off 2. Difference between 10x8" and 10x4" rigid with super chunks in same location (corners, 2' gap) 3. Verified that my desk and speakers' positions are yielding better results than before 4. Spread out 20 4" panels and took some sweeps. Animated results: Full SPLBass SPLWaterfallDecayBriefly looking at the SPL graphs it appears that having the 20 spaced out is, overall, the best option - confirming Ethan's findings. The thicker configurations definitely helped bring down the 70Hz peak but only about 2dB more than the 20x4" config. I'm surprised by the results. Again, three out of four responses are with the identical amount of mass in the room. I haven't even looked at the waterfall or decay yet - "information overload" as Karla calls it - but I will tomorrow. Comments welcome! -m |
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Post by Hexspa on May 13, 2017 13:01:18 GMT
Unfortunately, we can't compare these results, that I've posted heretofore, directly.
The reason is because of so much variation in LP and speaker positioning, hardware EQ options in the monitor system, level changes and so on.
What I hope to do, once I've built my next iteration of panels, is do a direct comparison among: super chunks, 8" rigid, 4" rigid and 1' fluffy.
I'll try to do as many combinations as I can manage.
I'm just curious about the results - particularly about ringing since SPL seems to be more of a function of location and EQ.
So we have that to look forward to.
-m
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Post by Hexspa on May 16, 2017 22:36:25 GMT
Just conducted some "note value" assessment and analysis.
I'll have to compare these results with "no treatment" and the other categories later. I'm particularly curious to see how the treatment helped, or didn't, in creating the good decay I have at certain ranges below 50Hz. Maybe good decay is just what you get when your room isn't reinforcing a narrow band.
These are the findings of my current setup with the super chunks gapped 2' and 20 4" panels propped up against the walls.
I'll go through later to determine which boundaries are primarily contributing to these peaks.
Peak Resonances:
29.95Hz (A#-1) -6.2dB
41.79Hz (E0) -7.6dB
75.40Hz (D1)* -14.7dB
79.00Hz (D#1)
95.60Hz (G1)# -19dB
195.9Hz (G2) -15.4dB
205.9Hz (G#2)
*particularly annoying
#barely
Best Decay:
34.43Hz (C#0)
37.40Hz (D0)
39.50Hz (D#0)
50.40Hz (G#0)
85.00Hz (F1)
Unless noted the setup is currently achieving at least 20dB@150ms decay at all other frequencies below 300Hz.
Basically there are three ranges that are a problem. The values after the notes are the average decay since REW only has 140 and 160ms. I know the decay isn't linear, they're just approximations.
The funny thing is that it turns out my neighbors have this tiny little Bose bluetooth one-unit system. It's a bass monster! Luckily, they were really great with the discussion. We swapped out that speaker for one with a higher cutoff. Today has been blissfully silent as far as that goes - much to my relief. Thanks guys!
Anyway, I mention that because the notes which I was hearing were mostly D1 and G1. I might've been hearing G2 also but it wasn't as boomy and there are many reasons why that might be.
I can't recall doing a test like this. I guess you could say the resonant frequencies don't sound "boomy" in the room like I expected. The notes actually sound mushy and less powerful. The ringing seems to, well, hang over, any post-transient information the sound may contain.
I was starting to feel like decay below 50Hz doesn't matter. Well, it does - at least in isolation. I was in a big, enclosed parking garage this morning and the low frequency reverb was awesome. Let's say the volume was about 45000ft3. Really, though having ringing at 30 and 42Hz sucks I think I'll cry less about it than I had originally anticipated - especially since the problem bands are pretty narrow; it's not like I'm recording many acoustic bass instruments (none, actually).
Having had success with 70Hz+, by focused treatment placement in the past, I don't feel at all worried about the future utility of this room.
Still probably going to add more panels. I have a new design concept I want to try out and share if it works.
Thanks,
-m
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Post by Hexspa on May 17, 2017 19:55:52 GMT
Well today marks the day we've decided not to make fluffy panels. Booo! I can hear it. All this lead up for nothing. Well, not nothing because I've got a new, bigger and quieter room. I've also applied knowledge learned over the year (primarily from this forum) to speaker placement - the sub in particular. I have data which'll help me better place my existing panels and I even discovered that I have an EQ to tame peaks below 100Hz - yet another first. You can blame it on Joe Hamilton  Ever since I've been reading The Millionaire Next Door, I don't want to buy anything. The acoustics I can obtain currently, even without proper placement, are pretty good. SPL is better in this room and probably ringing as well, compared to my last room. In other words, why buy more equipment when I have other tools to use at my disposal (EQ, etc) when, ultimately, none of this is paying any bills (yet). Sadly, all this is still technically a hobby and I can't justify much more spending. I did make other discoveries - such as the existence of vinyl drywall bead and thinking of new panel designs in addition to the previously mentioned tasks - so this was a wonderful learning experience. I'd just rather, for the time being, get to making more (and better) music as opposed to making more (and better) panels. Besides that, there are so many other problems with apartment studios that the final percentage points I gain with more treatment just doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe in a sound-isolated and/or larger room but not for a place like this. Thanks for following along and contributing, all you audio experts. Sharing helps me digest so, if it seems like I'm mostly talking to myself, that's why I do it. I'll try to condense this and make a video and/or blog post before long. So ya, I'll figure the dimension-frequency relationship today, I've already marked off my RFZ and I should be back to making ludicrous chart-topping sounds in no time In the meantime, anyone have an abandoned underground concrete parking garage they want to let me use? Thanks! -m |
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Post by Hexspa on May 17, 2017 20:48:21 GMT
I'll go through later to determine which boundaries are primarily contributing to these peaks. Peak Resonances: 29.95Hz (A#-1) -6.2dB 41.79Hz (E0) -7.6dB 75.40Hz (D1)* -14.7dB 79.00Hz (D#1) 95.60Hz (G1)# -19dB 195.9Hz (G2) -15.4dB 205.9Hz (G#2) *particularly annoying #barely 29.95Hz (A#-1) -6.2dB : 1160cm, 457", 38', 19', (mini hallway?) 41.79Hz (E0) -7.6dB : 825cm, 325", 27', 14' (side walls) 75.40Hz (D1)* -14.7dB : 450cm, 177", 15', 8' (ceiling, mini rear wall maybe) 79.00Hz (D#1) : 437cm, 172", 14', 7' (exactly width, also probably ceiling) 95.60Hz (G1)# -19dB : 358cm, 141", 12', 6' (maybe rear wall some) 195.9Hz (G2) -15.4dB : 177cm, 70", 6', 3' (maybe SBIR or rear wall) 205.9Hz (G#2) : 170cm, 67", 6', 3' (maybe SBIR or rear wall) That's what I got. I think 42Hz is side walls. Not too sure about 30Hz - maybe my mini hallway (about 18') I'd say the ceiling, the width and the mini rear wall are all contributing to that bunching in the mid 70Hz range. 96Hz is almost half my length but I'm not ringing much there - at least after treatment. The speakers are 3' from the ceiling so there's your problems at G and G#. Interestingly, they're about 4.3-4.5' from the side walls but no issues there. The numbers are rounded; for instance 79Hz worked out perfectly to 14.33'. I went based on exact frequency rather than the perfect note values. I'm mostly posting this to see if there's any flaws in my logic here. I mean ringing is related to boundaries with axial modes being primary factors right? I understand that other mode types can bunch up and also be problematic. Does SBIR contribute to ringing too? I know, I know - more panels. Let' see what I can do with what I have. Thanks, -m |
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 12, 2017 0:59:04 GMT
Hey guys,
Just wanted to update this thread. The process is not yet complete.
I still have four panels to hang and stuff to bring into the room; and then there's final measurements.
I'm relatively pleased with the response of the room so far, though I'm curious what the final words will be.
If you've followed me on YouTube or on my site, you'll know that I'm likely going to cut a week of production out of each month to tend to tasks including room treatment.
So I'll probably have my final posts for this thread in by the end of this month.
Thanks for reading and participating.
-m
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 19, 2017 18:41:51 GMT
Ok, about to run some sweeps.
Room is empty besides the treatment I've installed so far which includes 10 side wall panels, 2 rear wall panels and 9 super chunks.
Just need to see what improvement's been made so far and where to hang my final four panels.
Will post results soon.
-m
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 19, 2017 19:47:06 GMT
Ok, I've run some sweeps.
Unfortunately, all this treatment has reduced the evenness of SPL around 5kHz.
The sub actually had to be turned down some.
The biggest surprise was the effectiveness of treating the rear wall.
Even though it's further than 10' away (idk exactly.. 18'?), the more it's treated, the better all frequencies perform.
It's akin to a rising tide lifting all boats.
So while I had anticipated installing two cloud panels (one will suffice in covering those reflection points) I will place that "extra" panel in the remaining gap in my rear wall for a total of five panels.
I'll post pics.
-m
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 19, 2017 23:07:41 GMT
One more panel to hang - so excited!
---
Ok, it's hung (that's what the decorator said).
All the panels are in their final locations.
Gonna run final sweeps tomorrow.
If today's earlier measurements are any indication, there's still going to be more ringing at 70Hz than for which there was initial hope.
In any case, I feel that the available panels were placed as ideally as currently possible.
I've got two more posts till 800 so expect graphs and pics soon!
-m
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 20, 2017 21:18:27 GMT
Welp. Disappointment.
The main shock is the suddenly-present null around 130Hz now that the rear wall and cloud are installed.
Raising the cloud to a 4" gap seems to improve that as compared to a 16" gap. Flush-mount hasn't yet been tried.
The null is not present when the mixcube is measured leaving the conclusion it's a result of boundary interference from the desk.
Given that two sets of speakers are available, the SPL null is relegated to lesser importance with ringing and decay now taking precedence.
Initial observations give the impression that 40Hz and 70Hz are still problematic. Besides those ranges the rest seems pretty good.
Images follow comparing the effect of a 16 vs 4" cloud gap.
Advice as to which is best will be met with appreciation.
Thanks.
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 20, 2017 21:19:36 GMT
  Full SPL - 1/3 Octave Smoothing |
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 20, 2017 21:21:39 GMT
  Bass SPL - No Smoothing |
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 20, 2017 21:22:27 GMT
  Bass Waterfall |
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Post by Hexspa on Jun 20, 2017 21:23:11 GMT
  Bass Decay |
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Ever since I've been reading The Millionaire Next Door, I don't want to buy anything. The acoustics I can obtain currently, even without proper placement, are pretty good. SPL is better in this room and probably ringing as well, compared to my last room. In other words, why buy more equipment when I have other tools to use at my disposal (EQ, etc) when, ultimately, none of this is paying any bills (yet). 
