ryan
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Posts: 10
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Post by ryan on Oct 16, 2017 2:47:56 GMT
Im looking to get some suggestions on speaker(presonus R65) placement options that are specific to my space. the room is 8 feet high, 10.4 feet wide, and 11.5 feet to the partial back wall. the back wall of the other room is another 14.5 feet back from that. my first question would be regarding the back wall(s), and how that might relate to determining ideal speaker placement. am I correct in assuming that aiming the speakers toward the other room is the best option? Im not sure how the 38 percent rule or other arraignment options pertain to my situation with a partal back wall. I've been experimenting with different distances from the front wall. and panel placement. I have a lot of concerns about the front wall, there are hollow sliding closet doors and the other door is hollow. so it seems like i should be trying to get as far away from that wall as possible. If my budget allowed for it I would build a new solid front wall and wall mount the speakers, but for now thats not an option. I spent most of my budget on new speakers, test mic and supplies for acoustic panels. Im down to about a hundred more that i can spend on this room for now, so i can still make some speaker stands and a few more panels. the treatments I have so far are 3 inch thick (rock wool) in the cloud about 10 inches from the ceiling. the side panels are also 3 inch thick with a small gap. the rest are 6 inch thick. Im limited to about 3 feet between the speakers unless I build stands. Im currently positioned a little further back from the front wall than 38 percent, with most of the thicker treatment in the front just based off what seems to sound best. I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions pertaining to speaker/treatment placement, and any other thoughts related to getting the the best results out of this space. thanks Attachments:
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Post by Hexspa on Oct 16, 2017 20:14:01 GMT
Hi, ryan. I understand you're looking for advice on how to best orient and treat your space. I have a few comments which may or may not be correct or helpful. What's up with that other space? Can you use it? Your room really isn't the dimensions you listed because you only have a partial rear wall. That's probably a good thing. Assuming you must use the current space then it's time to bust out that measuring mic and start positioning things. First take everything out but the speakers to get a raw measurement. Find the best place for speakers and listening position. Then you can add RFZ panels and bass treatment. Yes, 38% might be tricky with your space but experiment! You see how your panels are overhanging into your open doorway? That's unnecessary. The point of panels is to make walls disappear (or control ambience) so those panels are probably best served on a surface rather than a space especially if that distant wall is over 10' away or if you've verified it's significantly adding to your modal troubles. Don't lose sleep over the hollow doors.
Thanks.
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ryan
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by ryan on Oct 17, 2017 1:50:44 GMT
I definitely thought about using the living room to mix in, but I think it would just be trading in the problems of a small room for the problems of a big room. the low end sits better in the other room (according to my ears anyway) but the long reverb time would probably be harder for me to work around than low end issues. plus that other room is a nice secondary reference, If i were in the same space all the time I wouldn't get that fresh perspective. as far as room dimensions your right about the back wall(s) thats why I can't just plug in the dimensions of the room into a room calculator to get precise placement options. as far as the panels being placed out so far from the corners there intended to be broadband traps because I can't really fill those corners easily, and Im not concerned about loosing that space. there placed at the 1/8th wavelength (37inches from the corner) of what Im assuming is my most problematic mode between the left and right wall (55hz). also i can easily move them to the living room to serve as my L/R panels. Im hoping that less treatment placed further from the wall can be effective enough, and allow them to be dual purpose. my test mic is on the way so will be able to see where Im at. when you say take everything out but speakers do you mean the desk to? other than the the panels thats the only thing in the room.
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Post by Hexspa on Oct 17, 2017 8:47:44 GMT
I definitely thought about using the living room to mix in, but I think it would just be trading in the problems of a small room for the problems of a big room. the low end sits better in the other room (according to my ears anyway) but the long reverb time would probably be harder for me to work around than low end issues. plus that other room is a nice secondary reference, If i were in the same space all the time I wouldn't get that fresh perspective. as far as room dimensions your right about the back wall(s) thats why I can't just plug in the dimensions of the room into a room calculator to get precise placement options. as far as the panels being placed out so far from the corners there intended to be broadband traps because I can't really fill those corners easily, and Im not concerned about loosing that space. there placed at the 1/8th wavelength (37inches from the corner) of what Im assuming is my most problematic mode between the left and right wall (55hz). also i can easily move them to the living room to serve as my L/R panels. Im hoping that less treatment placed further from the wall can be effective enough, and allow them to be dual purpose. my test mic is on the way so will be able to see where Im at. when you say take everything out but speakers do you mean the desk to? other than the the panels thats the only thing in the room. I like to start with room selection. I'm not an Acoustics expert but, if I comprehend correctly, your larger room won't suffer from "long reverb time". To be 100% honest, I'm not even sure why larger rooms are considered better than small rooms. Now that I think about it, there are probably several factors: modal ringing causing all types of interference due to close boundaries, walls being close enough to need early reflection treatment, limited positioning potential, etc.) All I can suggest is that, at the very least, you have different dimensions in the large room. Dimensions I can speak about (a little). By having 10' wide side walls and an 8' ceiling, your modal support is going to be bunched up. There's also a multiple of 2' in there which I believe will be below 250Hz. Your dimensions have to work together to give you even modal support. Similar (and multiples) dimensions give you a sine wave effect where you have one strong resonance and then a harmonic series thereof. If your room is ringing on G and your music is in Ab then you can see how this is a problem. Anyway, before I reveal all doubt about my ignorance, give the larger room a shot. Sure, you might have a longer raw RT60 but you'll balance that with better bass (more than likely). The mid-to-high frequencies are easy to treat with absorption panels; the bass is where everyone needs help. Besides a room being quiet, having ample power, being accessible and more, that's exactly where room selection helps. I really think you'll be better served by using your current space as source of "fresh perspective" as in you won't believe you ever considered working in there Yes about the desk too, btw. I mean you want the barest data available to get a baseline. Of course, if the desk is going in regardless then you can just leave it in. Then again, by removing the desk, you'll be able to identify what kind of effect it has. Perhaps such specificity is mostly best respected in a highly critical environment like a mastering suite. Regardless, by having many data points you can make more informed decisions about what you're doing with your time and efforts. Also, I like your fabric choice on the panels! Thanks.
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ryan
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by ryan on Oct 22, 2017 4:11:37 GMT
your right about room selection I was reluctant to try the speakers the correct way in the big room because I knew deep down if I did I might never be happy with any other arraignment. but both sets of monitors actualty sound better in the big room without treatment positioned right way, than the smaller speakers in the small room with a fair amount of treatment.I think it has to do with the more even spacing (closer together) of modes. the reverb time is still the biggest issue, that i think, which will probably require more treatment over all than would be needed in the small room to efectivly control the low end issues. but over all the sound just sits so much better in the big room. now i just need to tackle all the non audio related specifics, like mounting the projector to the ceiling, buying and mounting a drop down screen, rearranging and or buying new furniture, getting a new rug, and reconsidering how wires are to be run and hidden. it'l require lots more money that i don't have right now to make that work, but will probably provide the best results in the long run for both mixing and home theater.
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Post by Hexspa on Oct 22, 2017 16:12:51 GMT
your right about room selection I was reluctant to try the speakers the correct way in the big room because I knew deep down if I did I might never be happy with any other arraignment. but both sets of monitors actualty sound better in the big room without treatment positioned right way, than the smaller speakers in the small room with a fair amount of treatment.I think it has to do with the more even spacing (closer together) of modes. the reverb time is still the biggest issue, that i think, which will probably require more treatment over all than would be needed in the small room to efectivly control the low end issues. but over all the sound just sits so much better in the big room. now i just need to tackle all the non audio related specifics, like mounting the projector to the ceiling, buying and mounting a drop down screen, rearranging and or buying new furniture, getting a new rug, and reconsidering how wires are to be run and hidden. it'l require lots more money that i don't have right now to make that work, but will probably provide the best results in the long run for both mixing and home theater. Sounds like fun man. I know what you mean about not wanting to know the truth. Your mention of long decay time sent me down a rabbit hole to understand why larger rooms have a longer decay. Turns out I went down the wrong hole but apparently it's because the sound has further to travel and, unless the space is massive, air alone won't absorb it enough. Just work in the small room until the big one is ready. Or work in the big room until it's ready. I'm glad to hear that the bigger room is better. Until now, I've never setup one room only to compare it to another. Seems legit. Thanks.
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