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Post by dedhed on Mar 6, 2018 1:51:53 GMT
Hi, Here is the room I have been blessed with, dimensions 9' 3 1/4" Ceilings, 16"11" Wide, 31' 7" Long: Photos hereFuture Plans: 1. Complete Wall to ceiling Bass Traps around entire room. 2. Add Wall to Wall superchunks in rear of studio by drumset 3. Create "sweet spot" for drums & acoustic instruments on the raised stage area with the area rug containing the wolf legs 4. Hang a 2 to 4 inch thick cloud above this sweet spot with a 2-4" air gap. Questions: 1. Assumed it would be good to have my sweet spot closer to center of room to keep it away from the rear wall as much as possible. Is this thinking flawed? 2. How should I treat my sweet spot on the side walls? With a full drumset it could be 5+ feet on either side, with a single instrument it would be closer to 7' on each side. I could put a bunch of 2" diffusion with a gap up. would this deaden the room too much? Is this too close for diffusion? If not, what kind of diffusion should I look into making? Will this negatively affect the control room aspect of the space? 3. I want to treat the rear wall behind the drumset keeping both mixing and the sweetspot in mind. Any advice for a good mix of diffusion/absorption that would cater to both of those? What type of diffusion, if so? 4. Is there a rule of thumb for the relationship between a hard floor, sourch instrument, and mic? Trying to understand when to use my area rug and when not to in the sweet spot. seems like drums mics could be too close to the floor and create more comb filtering without a rug, but for instruments where I am not close miking i can see it working better. Anything else I am missing out on, especially for a combo mixing/live room??? Thank you so much everyone, especially Ethan. First saw Ethan on the Hustle Harder DVD, RIP Disco D!
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Post by Hexspa on Mar 6, 2018 23:28:35 GMT
Hi, Here is the room I have been blessed with, dimensions 9' 3 1/4" Ceilings, 16"11" Wide, 31' 7" Long: Photos hereFuture Plans: 1. Complete Wall to ceiling Bass Traps around entire room. 2. Add Wall to Wall superchunks in rear of studio by drumset 3. Create "sweet spot" for drums & acoustic instruments on the raised stage area with the area rug containing the wolf legs 4. Hang a 2 to 4 inch thick cloud above this sweet spot with a 2-4" air gap. Questions: 1. Assumed it would be good to have my sweet spot closer to center of room to keep it away from the rear wall as much as possible. Is this thinking flawed? 2. How should I treat my sweet spot on the side walls? With a full drumset it could be 5+ feet on either side, with a single instrument it would be closer to 7' on each side. I could put a bunch of 2" diffusion with a gap up. would this deaden the room too much? Is this too close for diffusion? If not, what kind of diffusion should I look into making? Will this negatively affect the control room aspect of the space? 3. I want to treat the rear wall behind the drumset keeping both mixing and the sweetspot in mind. Any advice for a good mix of diffusion/absorption that would cater to both of those? What type of diffusion, if so? 4. Is there a rule of thumb for the relationship between a hard floor, sourch instrument, and mic? Trying to understand when to use my area rug and when not to in the sweet spot. seems like drums mics could be too close to the floor and create more comb filtering without a rug, but for instruments where I am not close miking i can see it working better. Anything else I am missing out on, especially for a combo mixing/live room??? Thank you so much everyone, especially Ethan. First saw Ethan on the Hustle Harder DVD, RIP Disco D! Hi ded. Glad you have a room. One thing to be wary of is that your width and length are near multiples. This will cause a modal buildup in a narrow range while leaving other ranges unsupported. Look for this in your measurements. The center of the room is theoretically unsuitable for a sweet spot due to the way modes work. 38% front or back lengthwise is the standard starting position. You will customize based on actual response from there. Side walls can be treated with either absorption or diffusion. See Ethan's articles about RFZ creation. One rule-of-thumb for diffuser listening distance is 2x the lowest functional wavelength. The other is 1' per inch of depth. Thin diffusers like that aren't going to help much for the low end so either get a combo product like one offered by Real Traps, make deeper diffusers, or just use 4" minimum rigid absorption. I don't know about that distance rule of thumb. I know there's one for stereo mics being spread a certain multiple from a source. Naturally, strong reflections will create comb filtering. Whether or not that's a problem depends on the other reflections in your room. Your rear wall will likely be far enough that treatment may not be mandatory. Your decision will be based on your room's modal response, your preference for reflections, and maybe space and budget. I advise you to take acoustic measurements of the room with nothing in it so you can get a control value. Thanks.
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Post by dedhed on Mar 7, 2018 16:32:44 GMT
Hi ded. Glad you have a room. One thing to be wary of is that your width and length are near multiples. This will cause a modal buildup in a narrow range while leaving other ranges unsupported. Look for this in your measurements. The center of the room is theoretically unsuitable for a sweet spot due to the way modes work. 38% front or back lengthwise is the standard starting position. You will customize based on actual response from there. Side walls can be treated with either absorption or diffusion. See Ethan's articles about RFZ creation. One rule-of-thumb for diffuser listening distance is 2x the lowest functional wavelength. The other is 1' per inch of depth. Thin diffusers like that aren't going to help much for the low end so either get a combo product like one offered by Real Traps, make deeper diffusers, or just use 4" minimum rigid absorption. I don't know about that distance rule of thumb. I know there's one for stereo mics being spread a certain multiple from a source. Naturally, strong reflections will create comb filtering. Whether or not that's a problem depends on the other reflections in your room. Your rear wall will likely be far enough that treatment may not be mandatory. Your decision will be based on your room's modal response, your preference for reflections, and maybe space and budget. I advise you to take acoustic measurements of the room with nothing in it so you can get a control value. Thanks. Thank You Hexspa! The image might be deceiving, that sweetspot falls between 29%-44% of the room. With a drumset in mind, is the goal to try to align the kick and snare around the 38% mark, maybe by turning the drumset?? Ijust didn't want to over treat for either listening or mixing and mess up one or the other. I have people come in and tell me that I should build a wall with glass. My instinct from reading is that the larger room is better for both tracking and mixing. Is this thinking correct? Thanks again.
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Post by Hexspa on Mar 7, 2018 22:10:25 GMT
Hi ded. Glad you have a room. One thing to be wary of is that your width and length are near multiples. This will cause a modal buildup in a narrow range while leaving other ranges unsupported. Look for this in your measurements. The center of the room is theoretically unsuitable for a sweet spot due to the way modes work. 38% front or back lengthwise is the standard starting position. You will customize based on actual response from there. Side walls can be treated with either absorption or diffusion. See Ethan's articles about RFZ creation. One rule-of-thumb for diffuser listening distance is 2x the lowest functional wavelength. The other is 1' per inch of depth. Thin diffusers like that aren't going to help much for the low end so either get a combo product like one offered by Real Traps, make deeper diffusers, or just use 4" minimum rigid absorption. I don't know about that distance rule of thumb. I know there's one for stereo mics being spread a certain multiple from a source. Naturally, strong reflections will create comb filtering. Whether or not that's a problem depends on the other reflections in your room. Your rear wall will likely be far enough that treatment may not be mandatory. Your decision will be based on your room's modal response, your preference for reflections, and maybe space and budget. I advise you to take acoustic measurements of the room with nothing in it so you can get a control value. Thanks. Thank You Hexspa! The image might be deceiving, that sweetspot falls between 29%-44% of the room. With a drumset in mind, is the goal to try to align the kick and snare around the 38% mark, maybe by turning the drumset?? Ijust didn't want to over treat for either listening or mixing and mess up one or the other. I have people come in and tell me that I should build a wall with glass. My instinct from reading is that the larger room is better for both tracking and mixing. Is this thinking correct? Thanks again. Right, I understood that you asked whether to place the sweet spot at 50% which is probably never the answer. Regarding kit orientation, maybe experimentation is best. From Ethan's Ultimate Home Studio video, the drummer appears to be facing the room and the mics more toward the closer diffuse wall. Now, in that instance, the mics are probably far enough away to get a diffuse sound. Conceivably, you could make the drummer face the wall like a mischievous child and get a different, perhaps better, sound if you're using absorption or no treatment. Then again you need the drummer to make eye contact usually so I'll say experiment. I'm not sure why people are telling you to compartmentalize your room. Maybe it's because they've seen pictures of other studios and think that's the best way to do things. While I can't tell you precisely why rooms above a certain volume are preferable, I can assure you that it's the case. The advice they give (BBC, EBU) is always for a larger room and never for a smaller one. Sylvia Massey likes the one room approach so why not? Though I've heard it's less ideal, you could actually face into your room, still be around that 38% marker, and also have more than 10' of distance behind you. In that case, it'll be more important to treat that wall, plus you have windows there, but it could work and be great for everyone being able to see one another. I never did trust a drummer I couldn't see
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