brak
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 22, 2020 4:22:09 GMT
So, I just came up with a new acronym, as there is a limitation to the subject line. TMbaSQ means "This Might be a Stupid Question".
So I read/hear all the time that the denser the material the better at absorbing low frequency, but yet a concrete corner is bad. And wood is a lot denser than the materials that are suggested as well.
So can someone explain this, as I am currently assuming there is a sweet spot where too much density starts to become a bad thing. And if I am right, where is that point where it starts to become bad?
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Post by rock on Nov 22, 2020 5:55:31 GMT
I think this is a good question but I don't have a ready answer... so let's try to think this through.
We do know how "porous absorbers" work: Sound waves (vibrating air molecules) encounter a mass of fibers of fiber glass or mineral wool etc. The vibrating air molecules cause the fibers to vibrate and transform acoustic energy into heat energy. OK, we all know that. Now what happens when the density of the fibrous increases? Here's where I need some help...but... what I have come to accept is that as the density of the porous absorber increases, it's ability to absorb lower frequencies also increases (at equal thicknesses). This turns out to be a good thing for bass traps because we can save some space in our already small rooms.
But your question is, what if we take this to extremes? What if we consider that our porous absorber is replaced with a slab of concrete?
Well, we already know that concrete is also porous...and that it's also very dense. So why is it not used for bass traps? Here's where some may say your question is stupid. We know empirically that pretty much all sound bounces off of a concrete wall. It's porous but also rigid. So now I can only make a SWAG that it's got something to do with the frequency in question, either absorbed or reflected. I'll bet that all audio band frequencies are reflected and possibly some sub audio band frequencies are absorbed and converted to heat.
So it seems your assumption is valid. My suggestion is you compare the acoustic test data of various materials and determine what's appropriate for your application and move on. Maybe someone else here can give you a more definitive answer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2020 11:08:30 GMT
rock Those dense porous materials only work at VERY shallow depths.(No real "bass trapping" anyways.) It's actually hard to find porous enough(low GFR insulation) to really trap bass. They usually always end up being too dense.
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Post by rock on Nov 22, 2020 15:49:52 GMT
Pasim, which dense porous materials do you mean? Concrete? If so yes, I agree, I'm not suggesting anyone use concrete for bass traps. I'm sure you're correct the the "gas flow resistivity" is the reason concrete is not a bass trap. I realized that some time after I shut down last night but thanks for pointing that out.
Technically, almost all materials are porous, since there is some sort of void in everything. But in reality, it's a matter of degree.
This question is obviously theoretical since I would hope anyone (even the OP) should realize that sound bounces off hard materials.
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Post by Hexspa on Nov 23, 2020 7:13:14 GMT
It's not density, it's gas flow resistivity - as mentioned.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 14:06:48 GMT
And denser insulations materials, have higher GFR numbers.
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brak
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Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 23, 2020 18:10:28 GMT
Thanks to everyone for the replies. rock yes, I know that using concrete doesn't work from the many years practicing in many a basement. lol So I was wondering where the disconnect is. So wouldn't concrete have high GFR? I guess my question is more on the theoretic than the practical side, but as I was considering materials/thickness for bass traps my OCD mind couldn't help but go there.
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Post by Hexspa on Nov 24, 2020 1:43:29 GMT
It's not a case of 'more is better' but of the 'golden mean'.
No GFR: no absorption - pass through unimpeded. 100% GFR: no absorption - reflected. Middle GFR: frictional action aka "absorption" occurs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 12:22:19 GMT
Stupid simple analogy: Soft = absorbent. Hard = reflective. Of course, when you dig deeper to physics and acoustics, it's not that black and white. But these things takes time to learn, I can say still I know nothing, but not a newbie anymore either.
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brak
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Posts: 52
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Post by brak on Nov 25, 2020 13:55:26 GMT
Thanks guys, this all makes much more sense now!
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