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Post by ynotbloom on Oct 26, 2021 0:29:46 GMT
Greetings; New to forums. Way newer to Voice work. Way newer still to "how to build it right." I am reading a lot of threads involving mixing and listening rooms, but not much at all related to "voice booths/rooms" for spoken voice only recording. I find myself thrust into the world of voiceover (if I named that correctly). Within a month, I need to be working on recording State-created materials; creating something that will eventually become YouTube-ish, and/or AudioBook-ish resources for those with reading disabilities such as dyslexia. I have the base recording equipment, but I need the space to do it. I need to begin recording soon (I'm unfortunately not the engineer of this train). I am left with the only area available in my home (located in a relatively quiet rural village). It is a carpeted, unfinished, rectangular basement room that was "creatively build by a prior owner! 6' wide x 13' long x either 6.5 tall (with present hang ceiling in place) or 7.5' tall (with it removed). If removed, the ceiling is exposed 9" long floor joists running long-wise along the room topped by 2 x 3/4" plywood sub-flooring. The inner of the room is "unfinished" walls. 2 adjacent walls are 2x2 studding against earth-backed poured concrete. At their corner is a thin, wooden 9" x 32" floor-to ceiling enclosure "closet" for the breaker box. 2 walls are 2x4 studding; one backed with thin wood paneling, and the other is backed by drywall. The drywall-wall is one of the 6' walls, has a steel main beam running atop of it, supporting the floor joists, with the space open between the joists (which leads to the laundry room). Our home is generally quiet so me disturbing anyone, or vice-a-versa is a low concern. However, there is latent house sounds (refrigerator, AC, freezer, If worth anyone's attention, I attempted to post a diagram or "schematic" below, if interested. I presume I need to first "close/design/treat" the walls and ceiling, with some plan consideration for air circulation. My budget (and W.A.F. !) may be rather low at this point. That said, I have hopes that this type of work could lead to more and better things! The really good stuff (treatment, control technologies) will have to be added gradual as I can, and probably will be a ways down the road. Fortunately, for this project, it will need to be of some quality as many will be just elated that the listening option has finally arrived. I can always go back and redo and improve product quality the next time the State updates those materials. My hope is to begin this first phase as professional and as quality as possible (I am buying into the idea that more $$ need to go to sound management vs recording/processing equipment). Any suggestions on how I should go about starting the build on this room? I have no idea if the walls should remain hollow or filled, and then how and with what; solidly or layered? I have also heard that bang-for-the-buck, 1-2 layers of 3/4 plywood would produce better acoustical results than drywall materials. More expensive, but again, I would like to try to start as "right" as possible - so that future upgrades could be easier and more natural. Thanks in advance for any input! |
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Post by rock on Oct 26, 2021 22:03:35 GMT
Hi Ynot, Welcome to the forum. I think the most important thing to know about recording is the ratio between the source/mic distance and source/boundary (wall, floor, ceiling etc.) distance. The greater the ratio, the less the influence from the reflected sound from the boundary into the mic. Below is a fairly basic plan for your voice recording. It may be overkill or it may not be enough but it sounds like you don't have time to experiment. If you did have more time, you could take test recordings as you go. If you do have the time, at least make some recordings right now as it is and see how good or bad is is with the source (you) close to the mic (4" or so) and away from the boundaries like I describe below. You probably have a unidirectional mic (picks up mostly from the front and less from the back) so your mic's back can be closer to a wall than the front of the mic. Maybe pick a spot about 5 feet from a short wall and face the mic toward the farther wall. In an area about 4' X 4' above you (the source) and the mic, remove ceiling tiles and put unfaced batts between the joists and cover with breathable, acoustically transparent fabric. (keeps fibers in and looks better than insulation). (you could do this for the whole ceiling but $$ and time...) On the long side walls in the area of the mic, put panels of at least 2" thick, 4' x 4'(but 4" thick is better etc. and spacing from the wall is even better but we're trying to keep is simple, cheap, and fast) dense rigid fiberglass or mineral wool. You could actually just hang bare insulation on the wall to see how is works for you without actually building panels. A panel on the back wall (behind you) will also help and even one on the wall behind the mic too. Moveable panels are nice too because you can place them around you. When recording in small rooms, the more absorbers, the less reflections, the better. See pic of my moveable panels. Since you don't have issues with outside sound and won't bother anyone else, you don't need to consider "soundproofing". If the appliances cause a hum/noise in your recordings, can you switch them off during takes? Let us know what you think and how it goes. Attachments:
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Post by ynotbloom on Oct 28, 2021 3:59:10 GMT
Hey “Rock(!)” -
Thanks for the reply & insights.
Here are a few more “specifics,” since I actually have a conversation started.
Initial sound equipment:
* 2014 MacBook Pro
(will probably add an additional plug in SSD memory)
* Garage Band
* Blue Yeti mic w/ adjustable gain and directional settings
* Pop filter
* Compass boom arm w/ shock isolation holder for mic
* Beats “studio-style” headphones
* iPad (older) w/prompter program
Time-wise:
I have some leeway.
I should begin initial recording efforts by Dec 1 at the latest.
I instruct after 4:30 pm M-F, and have a usually flexible schedule otherwise.
I was planning on some location, distance experimenting with recording quality. Your placement suggestions helped greatly towards that!
Sound issues:
Im pretty sure finishing off/ closing the walls May be a wise move…just not sure if leaving hollow 4” air gap is wise….
* Turning off the 1st Floor refrig is not WAF compliant.
* Turning off the basement freezer also not WAF compliant
(Although I can move it a few feet further from my wall).
* Quiet village, but the local County Highway is about 225 Ft south of my house. We are at the 45/55 mph speed limit transition. While not heavy traffic, it is a regular spot for cattle trucks starting to slow for a stop sign (damned air brakes!). Thus I do have issues with the low frequency vibrations transmitting through the ground.
Potential room amenities issues:
“Back” Wall:
* My wife May be open to giving me the entire closet room area ( that + my office still will be less sq footage than her sewing/crafts She-Den). However, she still likes the idea of re-installing (15” wide) shelves along both long wall sides, butting up against the short drywall wall… probably up to the edge of the door. Would it be better to nix that to dedicate the room to sound, or would the shelves help by creating a diffuser / absorption type effect?
Thoughts?
Thanks again.
TAG! Your IT!
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Post by rock on Oct 28, 2021 4:46:54 GMT
The glaring problem will be "Sound issues:" If you need to isolate any, some or all of those unwanted sound sources, it is no mean feat and will take much more than I have time for tonight and will almost certainly put the kaibosh on a quick and/or cheap solution. I suggest you test with what you have right now and if the noise on your recordings is electronically un-filterable and unacceptable, you may need to find an alternate site or dig in for an expensive and long haul construction project. Please read this book: www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-Studio-Build-Like/dp/143545717X |
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Post by rock on Oct 28, 2021 13:33:18 GMT
Regarding the shelves: I don't think shelves on the walls should be a problem. Though shelves loaded with books and stuff are not diffusors that you might see in some studios, they can help to reduce flutter echoes. (Actually, anything you put on the wall will do something to reduce flutter echoes...have you ever removed pictures from a room before painting?) The only problem is that you will loose the wall space for RFZ panels. That's easy to get around by using moveable panels as shown above. You might choose to make them 4' wide instead of my 2' wide ones. The way I built mine, they nest together for storage as the "feet" go under the one in front if you stagger them slightly.
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Post by ynotbloom on Oct 29, 2021 18:45:19 GMT
Copied that. Thanks!
Amazon is delivering the book you recommended to me on Saturday!
Just for grins - a couple of friends from a far suggested to me of possibly only using part of the room: adding a wall and essentially shrinking the space down to a “vocal booth“ format rather than a 6x13 “sound studio.” They suggested considering either a 6 x 5 to 6 x 7‘ floor footprint.
Any thoughts on that?
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Post by rock on Oct 29, 2021 19:47:18 GMT
Actually I heard of one guy who does national political commercial voiceovers in his clothes closet. So yeah, you can use almost any space. As I mentioned before, if you are closer to the mic than the walls, you'll get less "room sound" which is typically "boxy" sounding and undesirable. A larger room allows you to be farther from walls and tend to have less of a boxy sound. A treated room will have less reflections; i.e. deader.
Have you done any tests yet? How do they sound? Maybe you can just sick a mic in the room hit record and start talking but you'll never know if you don't try it.
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Post by ynotbloom on Nov 2, 2021 3:35:12 GMT
The room presently is carpeted, stripped to the studs & outside paneling, and the hang ceiling “impaneled.” That being the case, nevertheless, I am moving my sound stuff down there this week for some testing and archiving. I think I have a plan for the wall finishing, but still want to get samples all along the way as to the change in sounds as the room constructs, and is treated.
(…I would laugh my arse off if after all of this, I would find out my best sound came from inside my wife’s coat wardrobe!…)
Thanks for the book suggestion! Gave me some good visuals and may have me pointed in a couple of directions! How far a cliff edge may be in any of those directions is yet to be seen!
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Post by ynotbloom on Nov 7, 2021 4:37:21 GMT
Okay, so this week I gave some recordings a try; if for no other reason, to begin an audio history of the evolution of the attempt at creating a voice recording room. I apparently am more greenhorn at this than I thought - as I cannot seem to figure out why I am getting an echo when I play back my recording, where upstairs in my noisy office I had no echo! WA! Gave up on that and did outside yard work for the week. Will try again this coming week...after a few more classes at the University of YouTube.
I did get several sound level checks done with my RTA PRO app on my iPhone. I am trying to include images of the inside and outside results that appeared to represent the typical results I was finding. For what it may be worth, I am also trying to include a look at what the room condition is in now. Still trying to figure out the best way of closing up the walls....or maybe just leaving them and try some panels around where I will eventually set up the mic.
*Sigh* It is becoming obvious that (despite this eventual first job that I am attempting pro-bono) I would like to take a crack at seeing if this voice thing could turn into something to make a few bucks at. But as with the Chicken and the Egg: I need a room to generate a cashflow - but I need a cashflow in order to try to build a decent room.
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Post by Hexspa on Nov 7, 2021 8:21:09 GMT
The easiest thing is to find a corner and cover all the surfaces with insulation 4' in every direction. Face the corner, put the mic 1' in front of your mouth and talk. For the insulation, use 1'-thick fluffy or 4" rigid. Make sure to include the ceiling. Boom - done.
Keep it simple.
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Post by rock on Nov 7, 2021 14:07:04 GMT
Hexspa is totally correct: It does not have to be complicated, keep it simple. Yeah, you first need to your electronics working correctly (without the echo). Thanks for the photos. You can put thick fluffy insulation in the ceiling cavity. You can put the old panels back but it's better if you can replace them with fabric or a screen or something acoustically transparent. If you want cheap, use the economy landscape fabric I posted a link for in a post last week. (You are checking the other posts on this forum, aren't you?) For the walls, put insulation between the studs, and staple fabric over it, if it's thicker than the studs (most likely) just let the fabric bulge over the insulation. Don't worry about covering up your walls (with drywall or paneling or something,) it won't do much for outside sound and might make the inside sound worse. If anything, use insulation (and fabric). Like Hexspa say's, you really only need to treat and use a corner. I say, if some is good, more is better  but what ever you do figure out your equipment and start recording and forget about your yard:) |
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Post by ynotbloom on Nov 7, 2021 19:42:05 GMT
Yes, I have been poking around the forums and catching what you and folks have been chatting about, taking notes, and steal-.....er, ah...borrowing ideas as I go.
So, If I am hearing correctly - close my walls close to "my corner" area used with fabric? Interesting. That certainly would be doable, cheaper, and if I decided later that plywood worked better acoustically, it would not be a complicated or expensive convert to reverse engineer. Could save more $$ for that actual voice room I have off in the distant horizon, as well.
Would this "essentially" turn the wall openings between the studs into some sort of RFZ Panel wannabes? Doing something similar, but maybe not as totally effective? Or something totally different functionally?
Moving up the ladder from landscape fabric, what other materials would you recommend? My wife is into cloth. That actually may not be as hard for me to access; in mass and at a discount.
As for the ceiling, the present panels are supposed to be "Armstrong acoustic" types (from the homeowner's perspective, not necessarily from an audio engineer's perspective). I think I may understand the why of putting in fabric instead, but would you mind elaborating.
Thanks again, folks, for your ideas and inputs!
(Will let you know how GarageBand goes this week. I'm thinking I should be putting my headphone jack into my mac vs the Yeti, perhaps. What may help that this week is that my wife and I just volunteered for our church's broadcast and in-house tech team. They are using ProPresenter and ProTools. I think I am starting to understand just a little better some of that techno-compress-GQ-regurgitate sound-speak stuff....just a little!)
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Post by rock on Nov 7, 2021 22:31:58 GMT
1.) Great that you are taking notes on other threads. Most everyone here has the same problem: They have a "small room" that they want to improve the acoustics for listening or recording. (and by "small room" we generally mean a room in a home. Medium would be a hotel meeting room. Large would be an auditorium.) The answer for everyone with a "small room" is ...absorption. That's it. So eaves dropping in on other threads will often give you some answers for your own situation too. 2.) Yes, in other words: Cover your corner and ceiling with absorption. 3.) RFZ panels are absorbers (porous absorbers), what makes them RFZ panels is where you put them. They do exactly the same thing as any other broadband absorber (porous absorber) with the exception that a thicker ones will be more effective at low freqs than a thinner ones. And a bass trap porous absorber will have a thin membrane to further enhance LF performance while reflecting some mids and highs. They are all absorbers and all small rooms need them to improve acoustics by getting rid of reflections which create problems. 4.) : Guilford of Maine www.guilfordofmaine.com/acoustic They make very nice fabric for acoustics and I believe it's fire retardant where the LS in not. 5.) The Armstrong tiles will be more reflective at mids and highs than fabric which is acoustically transparent. The thick fiberglass you install in the ceiling will effectively be open acoustically to the room allowing maximum efficacy. I'm pretty sure all the above has been spelled out in one way or another on this forum and the internet at large... but here it is once again. |
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but what ever you do figure out your equipment and start recording and forget about your yard:)