|
|
Post by mrfye17 on Mar 28, 2020 6:17:08 GMT
Hi People, After many months of researching, thread posting, reading, listening, building, measuring and analysing, I am now in the final stages of setting up my Home Studio. Primary usage will be MIXING and Recording Guitars, Bass and Vocals. To re-cap, I have a 11.5'W x 18.5'L x 8'H room with 6" thick panels and 17" square soffit style Bass Traps all filled with Roxul Safe'n'Sound. I have attached pictures of the Front Half and the Back Half of the room. I used REW to take a whole bunch of measurements to establish a Speaker and Listening Position and need some SERIOUS HELP with analyzing my results in order to narrow down the Best positions. I have 2 Krix speakers (HiFi but good) that are Front Ported and am not using any Subs. There will be a Ceiling Cloud with four 6" thick Panels (24" x 48") with a 6" gap (I think) and will Install them and Secure the rest of the Panels after the Listening and Speaker Positioning is established. Measurements Taken:There are 4 listening positions - 62", 69", 74.5" and 83.75" (38%) from the Front Wall down the Middle of the room. Using an Equalateral Triangle on each, I started from the Wall (W) and came into the room using increments of 3". Just to be as detailed and Clear as possible, all the Measurements taken were..... 62" ........Wall, W+3", W+6", W+9", W+12", W+15", W+18" and W+21" 69" ........Wall, W+3", W+6", W+9", W+12", W+15", W+18" and W+21" 74.5"......Wall, W+3", W+6", W+9", W+12", W+15", W+18" and W+21" 83.75".....Wall, W+3", W+6", W+9", W+12", W+15", W+18" and W+21" On the measurement notes, I also have the Distances from the Front Wall and Side Wall to the Front of the Speaker on each one, as well as the Distance between the Speakers (Center to Center). Because the mdat files are too large to attach, here is the link to my Google Drive where they are situated: drive.google.com/file/d/1y5ECOd-8kGYAkoGEnIlgQ5g-AsL73cY1/view?usp=sharingI know it's a LOT of information but I really do need some help (being an untrained analyzer) to help narrow-down the field and maybe shed some light on this bugger! Thank You so much for your attention and help, Chris (mrfye17) p.s. If you need any more info or have any questions, please yell out!   |
|
|
|
Post by Michael Lawrence on Mar 28, 2020 14:37:53 GMT
Your google drive link isn't working for me... make sure you get a publicly shareable link and enable link sharing for that folder.
|
|
|
|
Post by rock on Mar 28, 2020 16:56:17 GMT
Yeah, I can't get to the google drive files either.
I may be getting ahead of things but I'll just throw it out that the cloud, especially of that size (and I would say that's a good thing!), will influence measurements to some degree. I understand you want to analyze your measurements before mounting your cloud but it's also a catch 22 by not having it there in the first place. If you can figure out a way for it to be easily repositioned if necessary, your measurements will at least be a little more realistic.
Another thing about the cloud, you mention you plan 4 each 24"x48". You will also likely have some variations depending on your configuration.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrfye17 on Mar 29, 2020 1:24:03 GMT
I replaced the link in my 1st post....it should be working now  Thanks for letting me know boys. |
|
|
|
Post by mrfye17 on Mar 29, 2020 1:39:00 GMT
Yeah, I can't get to the google drive files either. I may be getting ahead of things but I'll just throw it out that the cloud, especially of that size (and I would say that's a good thing!), will influence measurements to some degree. I understand you want to analyze your measurements before mounting your cloud but it's also a catch 22 by not having it there in the first place. If you can figure out a way for it to be easily repositioned if necessary, your measurements will at least be a little more realistic. Another thing about the cloud, you mention you plan 4 each 24"x48". You will also likely have some variations depending on your configuration. Yeah Rock, I fully agree with what you're saying - things will change for the better when cloud goes up. What I would like to establish, is the best listening and speaker position (the 1 or 2 or 3) with the least amount of problems so when the cloud goes up and some corrective eq'ing applied then I will be in the best situation for Mixing and Producing (at least the best for this room). Also, you may be able to identify (because of your expertise) where some of my problems may be located or coming from. -Chris |
|
|
|
Post by Hexspa on Mar 29, 2020 16:11:55 GMT
I still need to make a video on analyzing response graphs. In the mean time, I suggest always emptying the room completely and trying to arrange your speakers and listening position to get the flattest SPL. From there, you add absorption to manage decay. SPL peaks and ringing generally correlate to 1x, 1/2x and 2x distance from any boundary or parallel walls and nulls are 1/4x, 3/4x and 5/4x.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrfye17 on Mar 29, 2020 23:27:36 GMT
I still need to make a video on analyzing response graphs. In the mean time, I suggest always emptying the room completely and trying to arrange your speakers and listening position to get the flattest SPL. From there, you add absorption to manage decay. SPL peaks and ringing generally correlate to 1x, 1/2x and 2x distance from any boundary or parallel walls and nulls are 1/4x, 3/4x and 5/4x. Thanks Hexpa, Yes, I've tried to avoid all those distances from any boundary. I guess what I need is some HELP to eliminate the 'No Fly Zones' by looking at the REW results....please, please, please can you have a quick look whenever you get a chance? I am grateful and appreciative of your precious time and expertise Hexpa. Thanks once again. Cheers, -Chris |
|
|
|
Post by Michael Lawrence on Mar 30, 2020 16:23:44 GMT
Overall you have a very well treated space. Your impulse response is nice and clean with very little specular problem. Were these taken with both L+R, or just a single loudspeaker?
I would look at some corrective EQ around 1 kHz and above 5k if you're certain that the rise-up isn't coming from your measurement mic. In general as you move away from the wall you can see how the dip around 80 and the peak around 140 both start to develop. You can reduce that with more bass trapping in the corners (assuming it's a boundary effect and not LF lobing between two loudspeakers off-axis) but overall you're in pretty good shape in my opinion. You already have a well-treated space and you can put the cherry on top with a few EQ filters.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrfye17 on Mar 30, 2020 23:22:26 GMT
Overall you have a very well treated space. Your impulse response is nice and clean with very little specular problem. Were these taken with both L+R, or just a single loudspeaker? I would look at some corrective EQ around 1 kHz and above 5k if you're certain that the rise-up isn't coming from your measurement mic. In general as you move away from the wall you can see how the dip around 80 and the peak around 140 both start to develop. You can reduce that with more bass trapping in the corners (assuming it's a boundary effect and not LF lobing between two loudspeakers off-axis) but overall you're in pretty good shape in my opinion. You already have a well-treated space and you can put the cherry on top with a few EQ filters. Thank you Michael for taking a good look and breaking it down for me. Yes, the Measurements were taken with both L+R speakers. Can you tell me which measurements looked better to you?....or which ones should be considered as " No Fly Zones"?Also agree with your advice on EQ Filtering. Once Spkr and Listening positions are established, I'll put up the Ceiling Cloud, take some more Measurements and will probably use Sonarworks for Corrective EQ'ing. -Chris |
|
|
|
Post by Hexspa on Mar 31, 2020 17:33:33 GMT
I'm not sure I understand all of these distance measurements but I looked through your responses and picked the one I think is best from within each .mdat file. I agree with Michael in that the room is satisfactory - at least in the low end; I didn't smooth any graphs to check the upper ranges because, like he said, that will come down to EQ and diffusion. Best: C_B+FWT 62" Wall Front of Speaker - Dist. to Front Wall 10" - Dist. to Side Wall 38 5/8" - Ratio 3.86 Speaker To Speaker Distance - 60" Best: C_B+FWT 69" Wall +6" C Weighted 69" Wall + 6" Front of Speaker - Dist. to Front Wall 15 1/2" - Dist. to Side Wall 37 11/16" - Ratio 2.43 Speaker To Speaker Distance - 62" Best: C_B+FWT 74.5" Wall +3" C Weighted 74.5 Wall + 3" Front of Speaker - Dist. to Front Wall 12 3/4" - Dist. to Side Wall 32 3/4" - Ratio 2.57 Speaker To Speaker Distance - 71 1/2" Best: C_B+FWT 83.75"Wall+6" C Weighted 83.75" Wall + 6" Front of Speaker - Dist. to Front Wall 15 3/8" - Dist. to Side Wall 29 1/4" - Ratio 1.93 Speaker To Speaker Distance - 77 1/2"
Hopefully that helps. Great work.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrfye17 on Mar 31, 2020 21:46:35 GMT
I'm not sure I understand all of these distance measurements but I looked through your responses and picked the one I think is best from within each .mdat file. I agree with Michael in that the room is satisfactory - at least in the low end; I didn't smooth any graphs to check the upper ranges because, like he said, that will come down to EQ and diffusion.
Awesome Hexpa, This let's me know the "No Fly Zones" and your choices and explanation make sense to me With all this in mind, I'll do some listening with Reference Tracks to establish the best Stereo Width and Depth. Not sure about putting any Diffusion in, just because the room is really not that big.
Question....
When I'm ready to put up the Ceiling Cloud, should the Panels be... 1) Over my Listening Position (my head) 2) Over the Speakers, OR, 3) Centered in the Middle using the Mirror Trick? Thank you, -Chris |
|
|
|
Post by Hexspa on Apr 1, 2020 23:37:14 GMT
The ceiling cloud is part of the Reflection-Free Zone array. All such panels are placed using the 'mirror trick'. Be aware that, if your speakers or side walls are far enough apart, you may need more horizontal coverage on the side and/or ceiling RFZ panels. In other words, when sliding the mirror, you might only see one speaker for a given surface area that one panel will cover. If that's the case then use more than one, or a wider, panel.
Hopefully that makes sense. Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by mrfye17 on Apr 5, 2020 6:15:32 GMT
Yes Hexpa, makes total sense.
Just to make sure I've understood it correctly....You mean, as I'm facing the Front Wall, that I may need to cover more of the Ceiling going from Left to Right above me.
In other words, extend Width of Cloud?
Thanks,
-Chris
|
|
|
|
Post by Hexspa on Apr 5, 2020 17:52:46 GMT
Not just the cloud but the left and right sides also. In addition, especially if the wall behind your speakers is within 10', you may want to place panels behind your speakers too. Maybe not though because you already have a good response but it's worth trying. Left and right in addition to ceiling for sure. Likewise, if the wall behind your head is within 10' then that's also an early reflection point and goes in the package.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrfye17 on Apr 5, 2020 22:06:35 GMT
Cool. I'll watchout for the sides as well.
The Back wall is 12' to 14' behind my head, depending on final listening position.
The front wall had panels behind the speakers (in the pic I posted) except for the Wall and Wall +3" results.
|
|
