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Post by rock on Sept 8, 2016 1:45:39 GMT
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Post by rock on Sept 6, 2016 2:17:16 GMT
I don't know but since there is some doubt about using the cardioid mic, maybe you can find or borrow a more suitable omni mic an see if there is any difference? I really don't know the answer.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Sept 5, 2016 19:05:51 GMT
Hi Jake,
Bravo! Those measurements are very impressive. Unless you made measurement errors, looks like you surprisingly don't need bass traps! So address early reflections, flutter echoes and control and flatten RT60 if necessary, that may help to smooth out your HF.
For recording, portable absorptive gobos are handy. For vocals, I just use portable 2'x4' 4" thick mineral wool on stands 2' off the ground with both sides absorptive and move them around as needed.
If you have the time, DIY.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Sept 5, 2016 18:52:34 GMT
Woo Hoo!
Thanks, Rock
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Post by rock on Sept 5, 2016 2:03:19 GMT
Hexspa, The R value is related to the resistance of the transfer of heat. So you're right but just have it backwards. We all know what you're trying to say.
Related to Ethan's comment, if you check the data sheets, you'll see the denser materials can have a bit more R value than the same thickness of fluffy... but, when the density is held constant, the R value generally increases directly proportional to the thickness.
Eric, Ethan's suggestion to get Rod's book to get the best isolation is imperative. I wish I knew this stuff way back when. The stuff I built back than was OK, but it would have been SOOO much better If I had known the information that is readily available today!
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Sept 3, 2016 15:11:28 GMT
Hi paindtp,
I was looking at your photos again and thinking dimensions might give me a better idea of what's going on over there. When measuring length, please go from wall to wall. Width, measure from the "front" wall to the pillars. For the height, measure the height of the "front" wall and also the height at the pillars.
Also from the photos, I realize you'll probably want to build up the floor since those channels on the floor appear to have a structural purpose and if you don't, you'll end up tripping over them. As a byproduct of building up the floor, you'll have an opportunity to create "chases" to hide cable runs. With some forethought about your possible uses, it could work out quite nicely. You can install electric power outlets in the floor too. Of course, you want to keep power away from audio signal but that's just another part of studio design.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Sept 2, 2016 13:00:51 GMT
From what I gather, I'm pretty sure that by the "main vertical wall" Ethan means the wall that is opposite or across the width of the room from what we are calling the "possible wall".
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Sept 1, 2016 12:26:50 GMT
I'm not familiar with the GIK products but I did take a quick look and if the "wooden panel" ones you mention are a combination absorber/diffusor, I don't think the corners are the best place for them. FRK (facing out) VS non FRK absorbers improve the low frequency absorption at the expense of less mid/high frequency absorption. That's why they are a good choice for corners since,1. that's where low frequencies tend to "pile up" or "focus" and 2. corners are usually not reflection points so mid/high absorption is not especially necessary there. One goal of LF absorbers (Bass Traps) is to reduce modal ringing which is "bass reverb" of sorts and is generally unwanted so I would not be concerned with absorbing too much bass. One goal is to achieve a relatively flat RT60. This room mode calculator amroc.andymel.eu/?l=13.5&w=10&h=7.5&ft=true&r60=0.6 will calculate an RT60 and other data. If you want to run acoustic tests, check out REW. Ethan has links somewhere, I think on the "read this first" post. I just plugged in your room dimensions ( assumed 8ft ceiling since you did not specify) and looks like (not surprisingly) you have several modes "piling up", if you built from ground up, you'd choose different dims but you'll work with what you've got. Just be aware, you'll need plenty of bass trapping to tame those modes. Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Aug 31, 2016 12:13:31 GMT
I'm pretty sure Ethan mentioned the reason you need mid-high absorption (not reflection) is due to the slightly longer path the reflected sound makes causing phase cancelations that spectrally distort the sound you hear from your speakers. In other words, absorbing the early reflections, eliminates the phase cancellations and spectral distortion. The ultimate goal is to hear the direct path from your speakers.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Aug 25, 2016 17:21:13 GMT
I completely agree with arnyk. He gives detailed reasons why it's better to use cables designed for the specific connections rather than use adapters. In a pinch, for testing or temporary use adapters are OK but in the long run, you're better off with cables with the specific connectors.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Aug 24, 2016 12:22:50 GMT
Yes, those adapters should be fine but I must admit, I try to avoid adapters only because they sometimes make poor and intermittent connections and can be plain troublesome. For that reason, I like the second picture that is pre wired to the plug (one less connection) but you can have a problem with any wire/connector so try whatever you can get.
The EQ may probably have input and output level selectors, you'll want to set them to -10dB instead of +4. -10 is the level of most home stereo equipment and +4 is the level of studio gear.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Aug 24, 2016 1:36:37 GMT
Hi paindpt,
Here are some comments regarding your last post:
Yeah, some kind of open weave fabric, burlap is one but there are other choices. I don't know about the layering of foam and fluffy but fluffy is way cheaper than acoustical foam products but the foam is decorative and does not need to be covered.
The sand filled floor would add mass which would help reduce transmission but that's another subject. Do you need acoustic isolation from the rest of the building? If so, that's a completely different matter and acoustic treatments will do little to nothing to help. I think, instead of sand, reinforced concrete will have structural value where sand will just be a load. Either way, you'll need to consult a structural engineer but hopefully, you won't have to go down that road.
Bass traps: 1. the thicker, the lower the frequency 2. the more area coverage, the more of that frequency they absorb. So you need both thickness 4" to 6" inches and coverage 2' x 4' panels of rigid fiberglass or mineral wool are good, solid superchunk are better if the coverage is equal to the panels because of more volume of insulation. Corners are simply where two (or three) surfaces meet. The bass traps straddle the corners. In YOUR room many corners are not 90 deg. (some are greater than 90 and some are less) but they are STILL CORNERS so just straddle them. (sorry for shouting:)
About the corner in your room that is greater than 90 deg is the corner where the ceiling meets your "possible wall" in the back. If you fill the space behind the pillars with fluffy and stretch and staple fabric across the "possible wall" you now have a giant superchunk and it will effectively trap all the adjacent corners to itself including where it meets the the ceiling. Bottom line: you don't need bass trap panels across those adjacent corners as they are already treated.
Possible wall fabric: Open weave as mentioned above. You'll probably need to install more vertical studs for stapling fabric to.
Of course you don't have a rectangular room. I think our suggestions are to try to make the best of the room you actually have.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Aug 19, 2016 19:35:52 GMT
Something I missed is that your ceiling is apparently insulated with paper faced insulation of some kind. This is good, exposed the way it is, as you probably have some degree of low frequency absorption there. To enhance/improve the mid/high freq absorption, use un-faced absorbers BUT, I'll suspect you'll get more mileage with the giant bass trap and corner traps and then addressing the brick walls with wide band absorbers. (Thicker is always better. Air space equal to absorber thickness increases LF performance for FREE except you give up some space.)
Many decisions usually include expectations, budget, time etc. so what you do will be determined by those and other forces unknown to me.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Aug 19, 2016 12:44:18 GMT
Interesting space. The symmetry is across the width which seems to be fairly narrow so that's not recommended but your other choice, firing your speakers down the length is not great either since the left/right symmetry is way off.
A diagram with dimensions would be helpful. Are you going to finish the walls with drywall or wood panelling or just leave them as they are?
If this is the only space you have and want to make the best of it, generally, you put bass traps in all the corners and treat for first reflections and flutter echoes. In your "proposed wall" you could create a giant bass trap with a fabric covered "false wall" with fluffy insulation filled in the space behind. With this, the four adjacent corners of the "false wall" will be addressed. I wonder what Ethan's suggestion would be but to have symmetry, you'd have to fire your speakers across the width. This is not great but if you trapped the "proposed wall" as I mentioned, that would eliminate reflections from the rear. You could also put absorbers on the ceiling behind you.
1. I don't think you can do anything with that wall to get an "even field". The best you can do is make it a giant bass trap but that does not even out anything.
2. Ceilings are treated firstly for reflections, secondly for taming flutter echoes and reducing RT60, and thirdly for additional bass trapping. So because your ceiling is at an angle, you still treat it for those reasons. Bass traps go across the corners.
3. Yes, you can build absorbers into your wall instead of attaching them to the wall. It's more of a construction choice than what will be better acoustically. For instance, a 2'x4' 4" thick absorber will do the same thing if it's "built in" or "hung on" the wall. If you decide to cover a wall, you can stud the wall and fill with insulation then cover over the studs with fabric. That can be easier than building panels but you loose the flexibility.
Since you have a non-rectangular room, your room modes will not be (easily) calculated. Optionally, you might acoustically measure your empty room to see what you dealing with and what frequencies your modes are. This may be help as you apply treatment but it's just optional and in general, the more bass trapping is better and the smaller the room, the more absorption of mid/high as well.
Cheers, Rock
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Post by rock on Aug 15, 2016 12:49:26 GMT
I used 703 to fill the inside instead of fluffy one, is that ok? Because I have so many left. Yes, of course 703 is fine, especially if you already have it. One large thick entire absorbing wall is better than corner traps if you can give up that much space. --Ethan Wei, As always, I think Ethan's advice above is the best. Cheers, Rock
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